RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:51 pm

I know it is only natural for our rats to establish hierarchies in their cages, but sometimes I feel really guilty abt it. Robot is the submissive rat, and Blaze is the alpha.

Whenever I give them treats, I have to give Robot hers 2nd, otherwise Blaze will come steal it ... right out of her mouth! Sometimes she'll take it from her even if she has a treat of her own. Ive noticed that Robot sometimes doesnt sleep in the nest with Blaze these days, she'll curl up on the floor right outside the nest while Blaze takes up the whole nest. I feel so bad for her Sad

Also, the other day, I saw Blaze pushing Robot across the tile floor on her back .. Im not sure if she was power-washing her, or why she was doing that, but Robot was sqeaking, so Im sure it wasnt fun.

Is this type of bullying ok? I feel so much guilt Puppy Dog Eyes

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Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:02 pm

How does Robot seem in general - is she eating, drinking, and generally happy? Or does she seem miserable more often than not, afraid or nervous to be around Blaze, or losing weight or not eating because of Blaze's treatment? Any blood being drawn?

If the answer is no to those questions (apart from the first one) then chances are it's ok. How long have they been living together, and how old are they?

Sometimes even the happiest of rats will decide they want to sleep alone for a bit - either because it's warm, or because they want a change of venue or they've had a minor squabble etc. It doesn't automatically mean there's a problem.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:08 pm

I always feel guilty about this too...but I don't know which one of my rats is the alpha. Peach always starts the fights and steals Cream's treats but when it gets down to the actual fighting Cream always pushes Peach onto his back but he's such a good guy all he does is clean and lick him...but I always hear squeaking like Peach is in pain..but he's the one who started it! Maybe the squeaking is just like yelling at the other guy to get off..lol I dunno..crazy rats

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~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:27 pm

I don't know about the sleeping thing, and I'm not expert, but I think the treat stealing thing is pretty normal. My boys steal treats from each other all the time, even if they've just finished theirs or have one in their mouths. I've even seen three-ways tugs of war over larger treats. From what I can tell, it's a combination of "oh this is tasty, I want more!" and the idea that another rat's treat always looks tastier then the one they already have. It sounds like, as long as Blaze isn't domiating the foodbowl and Rocket's getting enough to eat, the treat stealing shouldn't be too much of a problem.

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Boys: Qariol and Shen (PEWs)
Jemric and Verdrin (PEW dumbos)

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:00 am

Aye - even the friendlist of groups will steal food from eachother, particularly treats. wink

The squeaking - if you go to http://www.ratbehaviour.org and click on the norway rat vocalisation link, you can listen to different kinds of rat squeak and what they mean - the shriek is pretty disturbing though. It has a visceral, gut wrenching reaction on many people - makes their stomach clench and their heart pound.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:03 pm

Robot is a happy girl, or at least it really seems that way to me. She's always energetic and playful, she eats well, drinks well, and her manners are wonderful. She's the sweetie. Blaze has always been the difficult one, the most difficult rat Ive ever owned actually. She's *very* stubborn, always has to have everything *her* way. That goes for Robot, the cat, ferret, and all her "persons", we have very strict orders that we must respect her wishes at all times. We all need to bow down to the allmighty Queen of the household, Miss Blaze bow

LOL!

Neat little section of rat behavior, I couldnt get it to work for me last time. But yeah .. Robot's noises are a combination of chirrups and short squeaks, with the occaisional long squeak thrown in there. So I doubt she's being *hurt*, just protesting.

I plan on getting another female or two in the future, do you think that Blaze might be hostile towards them? Or do you think she will just want to remain queen and they will duke it out until that is decided?

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Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:30 pm

Mine have hierarchies. They fight it out, screaming and squabbling.

And then the next minute they're in a rat pile, sharing food, cleaning eachothers ears' and coats' and then snuggling to sleep in a puffling rat pile, stretching and twitching occasionally in their happy sleep.
I think rats just like to argue like people! I find my arguments happen most the more cage time they have to have.

Example;
I had the flu last week so I had to stay in bed all day. The rats didnt get any out-time except once for 30 minutes. Cage scuffles increased dramatically,there was a lot of REAL fighting. I think they were getting 'cabin fever'. You know how people are annoying the more time you're forced to spend time with them?

This week is getting more normal, an hour or so to come out and do as they wish, when they wish. The scuffles are dramatically reduced.

Maybe your rats need more out time ^_^

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:26 pm

	Quote:
	It has a visceral, gut wrenching reaction on many people - makes their stomach clench and their heart pound.

Ricky got his foot caught once getting back into his cage...he sounded like a screaming monkey. It was horrible. And he wasn't even really hurt...I can't imagine what he would have sounded like if he was caught enough to actually really hurt himself. *shivers remembering the sound*

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the actual topic of this thread, but when I read that it took me back to when I heard Ricky scream.

Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:52 am

My girls don't really buy into the alpha stuff. I know which girl is alpha (Savannah), but I doubt if anyone could tell who didn't watch them every day. I think this has to do with the personality of Savannah more than how long the girls have lived together, etc. I think the alpha rat sets the tone for the cage in some ways. In fact, I've watched Savannah break up tussles between the other girls. She pins one, says something in ratlish that makes her lay still, and then goes back to munching something. It's a very layed back position. I think Savannah is more of a "big sister" alpha than a dictator alpha.

On the other hand, Genghis (one of our rescue boys) wants to be the dictator. He is not very gracious about being in charge. Because of this, Genghis is getting neutered. Well, not because he's a bratty alpha, but because he's violent if he doesn't get his perfect little way, and it seems to be hormonal in nature.

As long as Blaze is still in the happy medium and isn't really hurting Robot or making her life less enjoyable, then I wouldn't feel too bad. Every rat picks its own place. If Ralph, Genghis' former (and soon to be again) cagemate, wanted to be in charge, he would be. Genghis is just a lot more concerned about being the leader, so Ralph acquiesces. If Robot was really into being the dominant girl then she would be (or they would just fight a lot and couldn't live together- so either way Robot is probably making the right decision for herself).

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Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:41 pm

Well Jill, thats a great way to look at it, I never thought of it that way. Yes, they both seem happy with the situation I guess. I just wasnt sure if Blaze was forcing Robot to sleep on the floor, or if she was doing that on her own .. thats when I started feeling the worst abt it, because Robot loves her nest.

I am just worried that when we get new rats that Blaze will be hostile towards them.

Celynny, I doubt they need more time out if one hour a day is suitable. They get at least 4 hours, and often much more. However, Ive never known rats to hate being in their cage as much as they do, they are still kinda young, and they have a ton of energy. Ive been thinking abt getting a wodent wheel for them.

Thanks for the advice everyone

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Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:57 pm

I have 6 girl adult rats, all which run in the wheel but one or two. They are all babies about coming out of the cage. I leave the door open almost all the time, and only two of them come out most of the time. But they run in their wheel, and I never see fights. Well, one of my girls humps the others- but its never a fight. They seem well adjusted, and happy- and must click because they get along great. The shyer ones dont get any outside time because they wont leave the cage without force, and I dont like to force anything, and even they are still happy. I think I just ended up with a group that works well together and gets along. I couldent tell you who the alpha is, I have no idea.

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Megan and the Hyper Hoppers. Blueberry and Butterfly, Naked Evee, and Chii.