RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:24 am

Hi all...

I use silica beads for cat litter and it works awesome. I like it way better than clay for my cat because its a lot cleaner. I was wondering if i should try it for my rats.

It is dusty when it comes out of the bag, but I've rinsed it off and i've just checked it now thats it has dried, and its no longer dusty, so that shouldnt be an issue.

Has anyone tried it or heard if its good or bad to use for rats?

Thanks.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:25 am

To me the risk of impaction would be too great. I'm not sure a rat could pass this if eaten, or what the harmful effects would be.

My 3 year old son once ate a silica gel packet (yes, I'm a bad mom) and Poison Control to me told make sure he drank ALOT of water and didn't get constipated or anything. Scared the crap out of me.

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Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:27 am

If i thought my rats would eat the silica, I wouldnt think of using it.. I can see them occasionally eating a bit by accident, but I can't see that causing any problems. Silica is not toxic or poisonous. If it was, they wouldnt make it as cat litter. I'm sure the manufacturers would have considered the possibility of the silica sticking to cat fur then being licked off during grooming.

The only concern I have is them choking on it actually.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:32 am

Well, a bit of googling just told me that even small amounts of silicia dust causes lung cancer and ingesting silica will absorb all fluid it contacts.

From the AFRMA :

"WARNING!
Breathing Silica dust can cause silicosis, a progressive,
sometimes fatal lung disease, and may cause cancer.

Clay based litters linked to health problems

The vast majority of animal litters used today are clay or clay based (i.e. diatomaceous earth). Clays are composed primarily of silica, (SiO) and the dust from these products contains crystalline silica. Silica dust has been linked to at least two critical health problems: silicosis, a progressive, sometimes fatal lung disease, and cancer. The consumer should be pleased to know that governments are starting to do something about warning the public of these dangers.

On November 4, 1989, California voters overwhelmingly approved Proposition 65, commonly referred to as the consumer protection act, consumer product warning label act, etc. As part of this program, California now requires that consumer products containing clay and diatomaceous earth in the form allowing dust generation, will have to carry a warning label. Under #12601,b4,A; WARNING: “THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS SILICA, KNOWN TO THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA TO CAUSE CANCER” would be the warning appropriate to clay and diatomaceous earth products.

It does not take large amounts of clay dust to create a problem. New U.S. Department of Labor, OSHA standards for silica containing dusts have been established at 0.1 percent milligrams per cubic meter. Based on manufacturer’s data, a typical clay absorbent contains approximately 0.1 percent dust by weight. Do not forget that we are talking about dust in the air which is very light material. It does not require much weight to create a respectable dust cloud.

Calculations show one 10-pound bag of clay litter at 99.9% dust free includes 4 grams of silica dust. Four grams is enough to contaminate 40,000 cubic meters of space or 100 average homes. If evenly distributed, the quantity of silica containing dust would require each person in the area to wear a dust mask in order to meet work place health standards.

To add to the problem, recently introduced lines of pet litters, which promote “ball up when wet,” are merely ultrafine silica dust. Many pet stores are now experiencing a backlash of consumer complaints because of the fine dust and tracking. Veterinarians and breeders have also reported severe health problems to the extent that cats have, in fact, lost their eyesight as a result of contact with these products."

From catmom.com :
"Silica is a naturally occurring element, also known as Quartz, and is found in some of the clay litters. ... According to government standards, silica is a known carcinogen and a Prop 65 material in California."

Ingesting silicia causes dehydration, that is reason behind the info PC gave me.

Not worth the risk, sorry.

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Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:36 am

BTW, this info also applies to cats, according to what I can find silicia is present in all clay litters. Looks like I'll be switching to feline pine completely now. Grr...this rates right up there with the Pine Bedding cover-up, if you ask me.

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Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:02 am

Everything causes cancer depending on who you ask.
I've known many many cats that live to be 15-20+ years with regular silica filled litter.

I think you need to do a bit more than a quick google before jumping to conclusions. Silica is inert, non-toxic and biodegradable. Its used in human food even. Do you know what silica is? Its just sand. If sand causes cancer now, I give in.

Thank you for your opinion BadRattitude, but I'm curious to know if anyone out there has some actual experience using silica litter for their rats.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:18 am

Well, I've made my decision. I dont believe that silica causes cancer, and the dust can be washed away... however, with no dust, the silica crystals stick to anything that is a little moist. I was trying to decide if this would be a choking hazard, so I put one of my rats down on it and watched closely to experiment. I don't think there would be a choking hazard, as it only sticks to things that are slightly moist, and a mouth would be too moist for it to stick to. However, when he started cleaning himself the crystals all stuck to his feet and made him quite annoyed. I guess I stick to yesterday's news... too bad, I really like the silica crystals for the cat box.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:44 am

ive used it with my cats before (although i dont anymore), and have in the past considered using it in my rats cage... however i think its too risky- the crystals are pointy and can be sharp to little feet, i imagine it would be like walking on seashells. plus i am WAY too nervous about the dust, even if it is rinsed. ratties are so small they can be affected by something that would not affect a cat, plus they already have sensitive respiratory systems. i try to stick with natural materials, or at least some towels for bedding.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:46 am

For the sake of replying to your comment to me :

Silica is not sand, it is a crystalline form of Silcon Dioxide which happens to exist in nature as a form of quartz that gets mined for kitty litter.

Silica is carcinogenic to humans.

Silica has been proven to cause silicosis, pulmonary tuberculosis (TB), lung cancer, and scleroderma. This info is from the CDC, feel free to look :
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/02-129E.html

Silica in kitty litter is often bound to Cobalt Chloride, which is also a proven carcinogen.

It is a desiccant, which absorbs all moisture that it comes in contact with, this can cause dehydration and death in large amounts.

It's rather not nice to assume someone doesn't know what they are talking about just because they used Google to find a link between silica and rats. I was simply trying to see if any one with rats commented on it, however, since the AFRMA has stated that it is clearly dangerous, few rat people are willing to take that risk.

Rats live a long time on pine bedding too.

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Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:49 am

The silica I have are beads... not sharp, and the dust rinsed completely off... I'm not concerned about either of those things at all.. but there's still the sticky problem... a dry mouthful could be a serious choking hazard. I've given up on the idea though. I just thought it would be good for the smell of the boys cage.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:54 am

BadRattitude... I got the impression that you didnt know from your first post. I'm not saying that to be insulting.. you know a lot about rats, and you cant be expected to know everything. I can do google searches too.. but I was looking for someone with actual experience on using it.

I'm sorry, but doing a google search and looking at a few websites doesnt make you an expert. And sodium Silica is a component of beach sand.

Last edited by Silencio on Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:57 am; edited 2 times in total

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:20 am

Just because a pet manufacturer says something is safe is NOT a guarantee. Safety issues are worse for fish and reptile products, but you should always research things.
Wouldn't a cat litter be incredibly drying anyway? I mean, I'd rather live in a room full of aspen than a room full of sand.
Cedar is much worse than pine, but rats kept on pine develop respiratory infections like 100% of the time. Hemp bedding I'm not so sure about. It set off my allergies.

Erin B.

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I feel so listless, I think they're drugging my cocoa.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:44 pm

	Silencio wrote:
	I'm sorry, but doing a google search and looking at a few websites doesnt make you an expert. And sodium Silica is a component of beach sand.

I didn't say I was an expert, however, if you have a question for an expert my hubby is haz-mat trained and was certified (doesn't need it for work anymore) and can answer it. Silica is considered a hazardous material and people who work with it have to use self-contained respirators. Just because I never became an "expert" in it, doesn't mean I don't have access to information on it. I draw on resources other than my own.

Silica is in beach sand, beach sand is also dangerous when inhaled. Just because something is safe in one form doesn't mean it is in another.

Personally, we don't use pine bedding for our rats and the science behind that is much less, than exists to back up the dangers of silica. Hundreds of people die from silica every year, and no I didn't know how much it takes to cause lung problems, but it is rather small amounts according to the CDC, rinsing cannot possibly remove every small particle, that's just impossible.

Also it's going to be a huge risk for ringtail, that I can tell from my own knowledge.

You asked for opinions, so I gave mine, you then stated it was worthless because I wasn't an "expert". If you wanted advice from an expert you should have said so. I gave you my opinion, and the info from the "experts" including the CDC is that it's not safe for anyone. If you are going to ignore the facts that get posted and do what you want, then there's really no point in asking.

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Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:47 pm

BTW, everything doesn't cause cancer according to the CDC, you can pretty much bet that if they say it does, it does.

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Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:20 pm

Just to back up the health risk with silica dust - Silicosis and asbestosis are two of the most common forms of lung disease caused in industry by breathing in particulate matter.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000134.htm shows the result of short and long term exposure to silica dust in humans.

The form of cancer that is associated with asbestos exposure and now thought to be associated with silica exposure as well is mesothelioma - the kind of lung cancer that killed Steve McQueen.

Personally I wouldn't risk it, not only because of that but the choking and intestinal obstruction risk - if silica based litters are as absorbant as I believe they would be, then there is a good chance that it can swell in the gut and cause an obstruction. JMHO.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:20 am

Please keep in mind that anyone that bothers to reply to a post for help and has done extra research is only trying to help. Whether advice is taken or not is up to the individual. We're here to try to help each other out and, in turn, receive help when needed.

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Christy
RP Admin
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Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:06 am

I've read articles about a number of everyday items causing cancer too. I simply don't believe everything I read. Controlled experiments can "prove" anything, and can do so with insignificant numbers while not telling you how insignificant these numbers are. There are too many "may"s and "sometimes" for that to be fact.

	Quote:
	Just because a pet manufacturer says something is safe is NOT a guarantee.

I thought that was obvious, I guess I should have been specific. My point with that is that they wouldnt be able to make money off of it for so many years if every customer's cat got cancer from it, and this is why they do consider the basics.

Anyway, silica causing cancer is not fact, while silica being a choking hazard because it sticks to ones month is.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:29 am

From reading this whole thread, it just seems like a bad idea to risk it. Whether you believe it can cause illness or that it just might lead to impaction, it's probably not the best litter choice, especially when there are litters out there that seem to be almost completely safe.

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Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:53 pm

My girls have taken to Using the vinyl floor in thier cage for the potty! I am going to attemp to put a litter tray in the corner where most of the rasins land. Lyric sits on the level abone and just let's them drop. Shrug

I trried laying a piece of news paper down to soak some of the pee. But Piper decided it needed to be shred and used for bedding. the hammock is now stuffed FULL On Cloud 9

I guess they find it comfy. lol
Spot cleaning sometimes get put off because things get real craxy around here.

What else could I try to soak up the pee? and possibly diaposable. ?

any Ideas will help! thanks!

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Lyric Bean, Emma Kaboodle, and Harley Quinn the rex head.

To all those who have crossed the bridge before us...
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Princess Zelda "It's beautiful here!, you should see me now, I'm perfect."

Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:12 am

I dunno about everyone else but I find kitty litter is quite good wink

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..Rosie....Opal...Pebbles...Ruby....Pixie..

19.10.05 Angel rat

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Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:09 pm

We use newspaper that we shred ourselves. The rats love to play tug-of-war with it! We also have towels and anti-pill fleece for nesting. I have heard that using rabbit food works, but have yet to try it.

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:59 am

Anyone tried the citrus rind bedding?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:12 am

Um... no. Not heard of it... but somehow I'd be wary... Ratty noses are very sensitive to smells and what smells nice to us might well be overpowering for them... also, depending on the precise contents of it, many people may not want to take the risk of their rats accidentally or deliberately chowing down on it - male rats can develop kidney cancers if they are exposed to a component of citrus fruit skins (well the oils in them) in high enough doses - while its unlikely on the whole that they will consume enough to cause problems even with pure fruit, its something many people might not want to risk.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:19 am

I've never heard of citrus rind bedding but agree with LW, it sounds potentially harmful to rodents.

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Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
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Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:12 pm

my dad is making me a wooden cage and i was wondering what to cover the wooden floor with. It will be made out of laminated wood as well. does anyone no what a good size for it would be??