RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:44 pm

I just got another pair of boys from Pet Co (because I was unable to find a breeder in my area).

One of them was from their last batch of babies and i'm estimating that he's about maybe a month or a little less old.

The other one is from thier current batch of babies. He's about the length of my hand when fully stretched out (not counting his tail of course). And the tip of his tail still has that baby pinkness.

Anyways. I brought them home and the the baby started sneezing just a little bit. He had been sneezing at the store but it didn't seem to be enough for me to be concerned.

By this morning he was sneezing repetively. He was also making this sound that kind of sounded like the cross between a sneeze and a hiccup. He sounds pretty congested as far as I can tell. Otherwise he's still very active and very alert. I even got him to brux a few times. But I just have a few questions.

Should I seperate him from his cage mate (since his cage mate doesn't seem to have any symptoms of anything, yet) even though he's so little?

Are there any home treatments that I could try before carting him off to the vet? (I really can't afford a vet bill right now)

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:20 pm

Well if they were in the same cage at the store then the older one has already been exposed and there is no point in separating them. Try putting the little one in the bathroom with you and run the hot water, or get a humidifier to help with the congestion. Also, I've heard a small bit of chocolate helps, but I don't remember if it's a specific kind (like dark or milk...) Good Luck! Crossed Fingers

Also, sometimes rats will sneeze at first when they are put into a new environment or have dusty bedding, but since you said he's also congested, I'd go with what I said before...

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Jess and the Four Rat Girls

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:29 pm

Okie dokie. I'll try that. Thanks.

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:23 pm

Dark chocolate is better than milk, and white won't work at all. wink

The decongestant/anti-cough component in chocolate is found in the cocoa solids, so the darker the better - ironically, it's the same compount that is toxic to dogs (but fine for rats).

As Cinc says, I wouldn't separate them - it's probably not necessary. As for the fact that the little guy is sounding congested on to top of the sneezing, you need to keep a very close eye on him - it's not that uncommon for a rat to sneeze when they're brought home due to the stress of the move, but the congestion could signify that it's more serious, especially if he's hiccupy (which could well be really coughing).

What bedding and litter have you got them on? Allergies can cause congestion, so you can try taking out all litter from the cage and put in just plain tissue paper or kitchen paper - unscented stuff only, and it would need changing at least once a day to keep them clean and smell free. But that will tell you whether or not the litter is a problem in a day or two.

However, my gut feeling is that this boy probably needs some antibiotics.... if he's not improving in a couple of days, please get him to the vets for a check over and some antibiotics (at his age, probably something like doxy or clavamox rather than Baytril).

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:28 pm

I have him in the same litter that the pet store in. But I can change him to plain paper to help. The bathroom thing with the hot water and steam and stuff seemed to help a little bit.

I havn't tried the chocolate yet. I have to go out and buy some. I currently have Mr. Bojangles restricted to the living room and the new boys are in my room. That's the best I can do for quarentine because it's too cold out in the garage.

Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:11 am

Do the best you can - it's not ideal if they share air space, but it's not always viable for people to do a full quarantine. But you can definitely change your clothes and wash between seeing the new boys and going to see Mr Bojangles.

Without knowing what litter it is that the pet store uses, I can't really comment on if that's potentially a problem. Many pet stores use softwood litters (which are bad and notorious for upstetting delicate rat respiratory systmes) and even some other litters that are generally rat safe can be unsuitable for certain rats as they are sensitive to it, or it can be a little dusty - for example, some people and rats have been sensitive to aspen shavings (hardwoods that are not harmful as the softwoods are), many people have found that the standard Carefresh is dusty can cause sneezing or worsen respiratory infections, and some other litters have also had associated dust or sneezing issues. It's a case of trial and error to find one that suits all the rats. Personally, some of mine were sensitive to the dust in Carefresh and the best luck we've had is with 100% recycled paper cat litter (Biocatolet, Yesterday's News etc) but even that seems to irritate my flatmate's sneezy rat, and he's least sneezy when he's on fleece (no softener, extra rinses, and only a very gentle scent free hypoallergenic washing liquid used during washing) and paper only - that needs changing every day as it doesn't absorb wee or control odour well at all (unlike the paper cat litters) but putting him on paper for a couple of days should demonstrate if the litter is at fault. If you have fabric items in there, it's also possible that your washing powder/liquid/conditioners could be a problem too, so if it does persist, you might want to look at that as well.

Check that there's nothing environmental that can make them snuffly - smoke, fumes, strong smells, sprays, room deodorisers, incense, perfume etc. If it's dusty or there are strong air currents, that can stir up dust and stuff in the air that can cause sneezing in sensitive rats. If you have air conditioning or duct work, it's possible that there could be some mold spores or dust that are being blown out through the conduits, and so you may need to look at filtering the air from those.

Hopefully it will settle in a couple of days, but he may need some antibiotics to clear it up.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:35 am

Looked at the package. It says its Pine. Cleaned and filtered to eliminate dust. However I've removed the bedding and replaced it with plain paper and plain tissues (without lotions or scents or anything).

My dad does smoke but my room is blocked off from the rest of the house because i'm really allergic to the cigarrette smoke so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I'm gonna try the chocolate. And i'm gonna try the steam thing in teh bathroom a few more times. I'll keep everybody updated.

Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:13 am

Glad to know he's off the pine - while extracting dust is good, if the pine hasn't been heat treated to remove the phenolic compounds, then it's going to irritate their respiratory systems, worsen any infections, and predispose them to developing more respiratory infections in the future. While some people will use heat treated (kiln treated) soft woods, many people won't use them as they still may contain a small amount of the problematic chemicals, and in all honesty, there are plenty of other alternative litters around that aren't going to risk harm to the rats. If you're not sure what to choose as a more permanent litter, then take a look at the sticky in the cages forum.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:23 am

thanks a bunch. I'll just stick to the paper since they will only be in the bird cage for the three weeks of quarentine.

They will be moving into the cabinent. If Bo doesn't accept them then I can always block the bottom shelf from the top shelf and Bo can still have his own space.

For the cabinent I use newpaper and change it every day. It's the most convenient thing i've thought of for the cabinent.

Any other ideas for the cabinent will be greatly appreciated. I considered towels but I don't know if I'll have time to wash that many towels every day. I also tried easy clean shelf paper but Mr. Bojangles is very fond of shredding things like that and it's too expensive to replace every week. The cabinent is HUGE. . .

That's a pic of it empty so you can feel how big it is. It's 3 ft by 3 ft by 3ft, approximately.

Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:26 am

Newspaper is fine - it's not hugely absorbant or good at controlling smells, but it works fine if you're changing it out every day. Some concerns were raised in the past about inks, but these days most inks are vegetable based and safe for use with rats (though they can make pale fur look grubby).

Do you offer them a litter tray? If not, you might want to consider litter training them.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:34 am

Yes. I have a tray that I put just a little bit of the pine litter in. But I hadn't been using it too much because Binky was strong enough to drag the tray around and dump it all over the cage. Kind of defeated the purpose. But i'll put it back in there since Bink is gone and I don't think Bo gets as much of a thrill out of making the cage a complete mess.

Bo is half way litter trained. He'll pee in the litter but he doesn't seem to care where he poops

Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:38 am

Oh. And i know this should go in the Cages and Abodes section but since I don't care to litter the forums with my threads i'll just post it here.

Is there any easy way to add shelves without screwing them in. (Because that would be a pain.)

I currently use card board boxes for places to sleep and climb on (but those get peed on and need to be replaced often) and I added two wire shelves to the door (but I don't really like them). So I was wondering if there was a way to maybe added shelves to the back wall or to the side walls without the use of heavy duty tools.

Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:11 am

Perhaps fix a hook or something to the side of the cage, and you can fasten the litter tray to that - but do pick a non-pine litter for that tray. At least he pees in it - you can pick up poops easy enough, but wee is more of a problem. My lot will poop in their tray but won't pee in it - I'd much prefer it was the other way round. wink

As for shelves - I don't think so, unless you can perhaps fix a piece of wood around the cage itself, and then rest a shelf on those? But I can't really think of a way in that cage to do it that wouldn't involve making some real changes to the wooden structure. You can get some wire shelves that are designed to hook onto wire cages to provide extra layers, so perhaps you could create some kind of fastening on the wood sides (maybe some of those screw in eyelets?) and then hook the wire platform into that?

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:52 am

K. Thanks.

Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:46 pm

Just a note.. My female has hiccupped since I had her, and as most of our pet stores offer a guarantee, I took her in for a check up. They checked her out, and apparently she was completely clear - nothing on her chest at all. They gave me some Baytril, but it didn't change anything. I have changed her litter about 4 times, and she is still the same. It doesn't seem to cause her any distress, so I'm presuming it's either a noise she makes or she just has a tendency to sneezing and hiccupping. Unfortunately, there are a lot of smokers in the house i'm staying in. I too am very allergic, so the windows are open a lot up here to keep them free of the smoke, but not enough so that they get cold.. I also cover them in rugs if i do have the window open and it's cold, just so i know they aren't getting a draft..

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~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:49 pm

What litter do you have your ratty on now, bored_bel? The smoking definitely won't be helping but sadly the sensitive respiratory systems and/or chronic respiratory problems are a real issue with rats (and sadly, especially in rats that haven't been specifically bred with health as a prime ideal).

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:48 pm

I've removed the litter completely and replaced it with a few layers of newspaper and some plain tissues as bedding. He seems to be making a huge improvement. There are still some sneezes and a litte of that hiccup/sneeze sound but it seems to be going away. He also doesn't seem as congested.

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:03 am

Great news! Hopefully now he's off the pine, he's going to improve and hopefully not need any antibiotics. Crossed Fingers

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:56 am

Yea i hope so too. Crossed Fingers

I really can't afford another vet bill with having to pay for school and books and stuff. But i'm going to try to get a humidifier from my ma and put it by thier cage.

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:20 am

That's the trouble with taking on the responsibility for any animal - when they need treatment, somehow you have to find the money, and it's not always easy to do so. Confused

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:06 pm

I've got them on hemcore now, with some carefresh thrown in for a bit more softness.plus the usual paper towels and shredded paper.. I keep it all as ventilated as possible. I've got a really weak respiratory system myself, so i appreciate how hard the smoke must be on them.. fingers crossed i will be moving out soon.. At least June July time, which isn't ideal, but better than being here for the whole of my degree course

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~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:09 pm

Also, it may be worth phoning the pet store and letting them know that he's been sneezing since you had him. If you point out their responsibility, they are often willing to pay for initial clear-up treatment to avoid bad press. Also, as it was from them, the chances are the whole litter has the same problems, and they may get multiple complaints. Make a little bit of a fuss to them and see if they'll accept responsibility for the condition he's in right now. After all, if they're keeping rats, they should be keeping them correctly.

_________________
~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:10 pm

I would complain but it's hard to make a dent in a large franchise like Pet Co. I did complain to the manager about the way the girl handled the rats but I felt that's all I really could do since Pet Co sells thier rats as feeders. At least this one does.

Besides the congestion and sneezing almost seems to be completely gone and I think a large part of it was the litter.

But I'm not going to start my quarentine count down until the baby has gone a full 24 hours without symptoms.

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:17 pm

Oh right.. there are times when I'm so glad i live in the uk.. I hate the thought of animals sold as food.. I know it's essential if people keep exotics.. it's just such a horrid thought.. In the wild it's fine.. Just have an issue with it in my brain :S

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~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:57 pm

I used to use pine for my old rat and the same thing was happening..the sneezing,congestion and such. After I had taken her off the shavings the symptoms seemed to go away but maybe a month later she developed a resperitory problem...so just something to lookout for.

For one of my rats I use paper towels to line the cage and Yesterday'sNews in one corner for the litter.

_________________
~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat