RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:03 am

My friend volunteers at the humane society and she called and asked me if I would take a rat that was being beat up by his cagemates...she wanted me to foster-care him..but I couldn't give up a rattie after I look after it.

The rat is already 1 yr and 4 mths old...he's a pretty big guy. He has big scratches on his sides and they had to shave it to let the cuts heal..they look like they're almost gone. But I also noticed that it is very red on the top of his back feet..it's hard to see the area as this rat is not yet used to people..could this be something serious?? Maybe bumblefoot??

I'm also wondering when I should introduce him to my other rats...right now he is alone and I feel really bad!! My other rats are 4 and 5 months old and much smaller than him. Also..they had a vet at the humane society who said the rat was all right..should I get him re-checked before he lives with my other rats? Do you think my rats would also beat him up?? They fight lots with eachother but never actually get hurt so I'm pretty sure it's just playing. I'm just worried about the age difference but I don't want him to get lonely..the cage he is in right now is not big enough for another rat..it's about 2 hamster cages long but not very tall..so I can't get him a new cagemate.

This rat seems very scared...almost like he was abused in the past! He freezes up when you touch him..he feels so stiff and looks very scared..he won't even take a yogie from my hand Sad

He has never tried to bite me but yesterday he tried to bite my boyfriend and I know it was because he was afraid. Is there anything different I should do to make this guy feel more comfortable? I'm training him like I did my other guys..but he is much older.

The cage I have for my other guys is 2 floors...the bottom floor is pretty big and the top one about half the size..the actual bottom floor is small..it's just a plastic pull out thing as this is a bird cage. Do you think it would be big enough for 3 rats?? I'm thinking it won't...I don't have any pictures..but should I try putting them all together now or wait until I get a larger cage??

I was also wondering..is it okay to have just bars as a floor?? If this is fine I can put a few cages together and make a really big one..a while ago I heard it was bad..but I think I read a post saying it was okay??

Any help would be great! This is my 1st real rescue rat..oh btw I think we've decided on Jibroney for the name

_________________
~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:42 am

Bumblefoot is usually on the heel, though the redness can spread if the infection does. It's possible he has some scratches or bites on his feet if he has been involved in fights - is he on any medication at the moment?

Bars for flooring - it used to be believed it was a cause of bumblefoot, but it's more likely down to cage hygeine or genetic predisposition as much as anything else. If they already have sore feet, then bars may be harder on them (because of greater pressure on the spots the bars press) but it's not going to make them poorly on their own. You can also cover the bars with cloth, plastic tapestry stuff, carpet runner plastic - anything really though perforated plastic or cloth is most usual. Just make sure that if the bars are not covered, they are 1/4 inch apart, no more, just in case they manage to trap and break a foot.

Without knowing the dimensions of your current cage, I can't really tell if it's big enough - if you can measure it, I can let you know.

Poor boy sounds terrified - he's been shuffled around and he doesn't sound as if he's been well socialised either. It tends to take more time with older rats, but you will hopefully see plenty of improvement with patience and lots of trust training.

Really, it's better to do a quarantine in the Canada (I think - like in the US) but if they've already been in the same room, then it's probably not worth doing so now, as they will have been exposed to anything they're carrying. If they've not been exposed, then it might be worth continuing for 2-3 weeks to be sure before you introduce them. Being alone for a few weeks won't cause him any permanent problems, but when you do choose to reintroduce him to the others, take it very slowly and follow all the steps gradually. They might get on fine, or he might not be happy with them - you won't really know until you try, without knowing why he was fighting with his last cagemate.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:53 am

He isn't on any medications right now..he looks pretty healthy except for the feet...and I think it is actually on the heels..it doesn't really look like a bite either..just red and maybe a bit swollen.

The rats haven't been introduced yet but are in the same room..except on opposite sides..I think my other guys might have fleas and haven't been able to get an appointment to the vet yet..I'm pretty sure there are no other problems..all the rats seem quite healthy...I hope fleas haven't got to him yet..but I'm not even 100% sure if they have them and if they do it's not a bad case.

If the new guy does have bumblefoot can it spread to the other rats?? Should I just bring him to the vet and get it checked out or is there anything I can do for him?

_________________
~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:21 am

http://ratguide.com/health/integumentary_skin/ulcerative_pododermatitis.php

Check that link out - it has links to some photos of bumblefoot. If you do a search back through here too, you can find some threads on Bumblefoot also - Twinky (Stuk In Africa's boy) was probably the most recent one. Here are a couple of links

http://www.ratpalace.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22646&highlight=

It's not contagious, if that's what it is. And yes, it does need prompt treatment until it's healed.

If they're in the same room, then quarantine won't be possible - just keep an eye on them and seek prompt advice if you see any respiratory problems etc. Mite and lice and fleas can certainly spread that far, so be sure to treat all rats, as well as cages and surroundings.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:03 am

After looking at those links *thanks for them btw* it definatly is bumblefoot..it's just started though so I'll go to the vet right away..

I don't think the rats at the humane society are living in a very good environment..the cage did look a bit dirty..do you think I should call and tell them?? They have a vet there..I wonder why they weren't treated for this.

_________________
~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:14 am

If anyone else is looking for blu-kote I found a place that sells it for only $5 and ships to US and CAN!!

http://adamshorsesupplies.com/store/index.php/cat_129

_________________
~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:36 pm

They may not have realised - it's not always obvious if it's just red rather than all-out abscessing and classic pododermatitis with the ulceration so classic of bumblefoot... and many people aren't familiar with it (owners and vets). Also, it's my sad experience that even many rescue organisations aren't particularly familiar with rats - even in the UK, where generally rats are regarded a little better than the US, I've seen RSPCA officers pick them up by the tail, keep them on pine shavings and I've even had a cat from them with chronic diarrhoea and severe chronic ear mites. A lack of familiarity with all animals, plus the overstretching of their resources means things get missed sadly, even in the best rescues.

I'd look into using some oral antibiotics such as cefadrops or another cephalosporin antibiotic - Ratguide can give you the dosages if you want to take them to your vet in case they aren't familiar with their use in rats. But that group of antibiotics are fantastic for skin and bone infections (which is what bumblefoot is - skin at first, then can proceed into the bone when severe) and hitting it hard will hopefully stop it now before it worsens, though he'll likely always be prone to it.

Make sure his cage is scrupulously clean and very soft on the foot. Is he a big rat - squishy and on the heavy side? Sometimes, bumblefoot seems to be linked to obesity and type 2 diabetes, so it may be worth seeing if the vet will check his urine for sugar, just to be sure he doesn't need some diet changes. High blood sugar can make you prone to infections like boils and abscesses in the skin.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:39 pm

Ya know, I was thinking that maybe Jibroney bit your bf because he was in pain? The only time I ever got bitten by one of my rats was when my rat Eeek spilled the comet cleaner and some of it got in his eyes. I went to pick him up, and he just bit my finger because he was flailing around in pain. Perhaps when your man picked him up he touched one of his sore feet? Who knows, maybe he was just scared, poor little dude got beaten up by his buddies Sad

It was awesome of you to adopt a rescue fuzzy

Congratulations on your new addition!

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Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:52 pm

willow- Jibroney is a pretty big rat...but not quite a squishy yet. Right now I have papertowels lining his cage and YN in only one corner..he seems to be litter trained. He has a hammock in there aswell but it's pretty low so he won't have to climb the bars...even though he keeps pulling some of the papertowel up there with him. I'd like to get those dosages if I could..would I have to weigh my rat 1st??I might have to go to the vet to get him weighed because I don't really have a good enough scale. I've been looking and I think it's only really on one foot..it actually almost looked like a scab with red around it..maybe they staretd treating it?? It's weird they wouldn't tell me anything about it if they did. I also found a site that sells the blu-kote and they deliver to Canada so should I maybe order that? Or just try the other antibiotic 1st?

ash- My bf actually didn't pick him up..he just put his hand near Jibroney to smell..but maybe his hand just smelled like food because my bf works at Chicken Delight lol..I thought about that after

_________________
~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:07 pm

Aye - pain and fear are probably the two main reasons that rats bite (as in real bites rather than nips or accidental "oops didn't realise you weren't food) in general. A combination of both will greatly increase your chances of being on the sharp end of a ratty.

I would have imagined they would tell you about it if they started to treat it - I'd say it's definitely worth contacting them about it and asking if they were aware of it, so at least you can let them know what's going on and - if they don't know what it is, they know to look for it in future.

Re: treatments... I'm not sure to be honest. Blue-kote is a reasonably good surface disinfectant, antifungal and antibacterial combination. If you can't get that, then another similar product and/or a product that helps get rid of excess tissue during healing of open wounds or burns will help. But if it were me, I'd probably look at a topical product and a systemic/oral antibiotic - simply because the topical stuff doesn't get that deep and the infection can lurk away from the open surface of the ulcerated tissue. It also helps prevent it spreading further, and penetrates deeper into the tissues (particularly if you go with cefa-like drugs.

http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/cefadroxil.php - cefa drops (highly recommended by US folk and relatively easy to dose as come in a liquid form)
http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/cephalexin_monohydrate.php - a similar drug, cefalexin (and one I've used with good success in the past).
http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/clavamox_amoxicillinclavulanate.php - combination of a penicillin (which are related to the cefa drugs) and another drug (clavulanic acid) which tends to be effective for skin infections also.

http://ratguide.com/meds/basics/antimicrobials_according_to_site.php - a list of antibiotics and how effective they are in different areas of the body.

And yes - I'd highly recommend a vet visit - he can check him over, make sure there's no other cause that needs treating and can prescribe you the correct antibiotics at the right dosage - even if they've never used cefadroxil (cefa drops) before, if you take that along and ask them to dose him based on those recommendations, they should help out and tell you how much to give him. Don't forget a little live yoghurt or probiotic capsules/powders/products to keep his gut healthy while he's on them.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:28 pm

Thanx for all your help Willow

_________________
~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat

Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:34 am

I called the humane society and they didn't seem to know anything about rats at all!! I told them Jibroney has bumblefoot and tried to explain what it was..a huge sore on the heel. I also told them it usually results from dirty cages. They told me the rat has a 2 week period in which their vet will pay for any fees if the animal is not well..but they don't even know what bumblefoot is. They transferred me to some other line and I left a message with my number. They still haven't got back to me yet and I called early this morning. I want to get Jibroney some medecine soon and not wait around for them...but it would be awesome if they paid for it as I don't currently have a job...I'm not sure what to do.

_________________
~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat