RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:05 pm

Hi again all :O)
Stitch has settled in wonderfully. My, what an adorable fella!! I just love him to death! he LOVES to snuggle, is very curious..and is just so sweet!
Anyway, i'm concerned about his diet. He came to me with the seed mix stuff. He's not eating alot of it. He's not too thin..I'd say *ok* for weight. Anyway, i'm going to buy the food blocks but was wondering..am i going to have a tough time getting him to eat the blocks? Or will he readily accept them? I'm assuming it'll be hard to get him off the mix stuff.
Also, how do u know when it's time to get their teeth trimmed?

Lisa

Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:13 pm

He may not willingly go from seed mix to blocks. Actually none of mine will eat blocks so they get Suebee's mix. If you don't mind mixing your own it really is a great diet and the rats love it. You can find it at http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html

You shouldn't ever have to trim a rats teeth unless they have a problem with them or get too old to keep them worn down. They do a good job of keeping them the right length on their own through bruxing (grinding their teeth) and gnawing on toys.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
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Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:46 pm

My ratties love Harland Teklab blocks... they've never had a problem with different sorts of foods, even after I had them on a seed diet at first. It might be worth trying out. Of course, they also get fresh veggies and baby food and dog food and treats, so maybe they just don't mind the variety.

_________________
~Vicki and her morning coffee~
Latte, Arabica, Bean, and Demitasse

O..O
>o<
(db)S
^^

Rest in Peace my sweet Mocha

Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:23 pm

Suebee's mix is what I've used for years. It's a healthy diet, the ingrediants are readily available and you can mix up a months worth at a time. Usually pre-packaged mixes in the US are not formulated correctly for rats and have too many seeds, too much protien and too much fat.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:45 am

Hey there! Well, i went out today and bought everything i needed for Stitch's diet. I have one question tho re: the Total Cereal. I couldn't find it (i'm in Canada)..i'm assuming that the reason for the cereal is the vitamin C so i grabbed a box of Vector which is loaded with Vitamin C (couldn't find any other brands with Vitamin C) I switched the Vector for the Total. Do u think that would be ok? It seems like a reasonably healthy box of cereal. Also, how important is the puffed rice cereal? I couldn't find any of that either. I also couldn't find UNsalted sunflower seeds OR soy nuts so i bought salted. Is that a really bad choice? And finally..when u buy dried fruit..do u buy the variety mixture or is there one particular fruit I should be looking for?

Lisa

Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:41 am

I'm not sure what Vector is or has in it~I haven't seen it here in the U.S.

You have Wheetabix in Canada, right? You could check the vitamin and mineral content of that. As I remember, that was a fairly healthy and nutrious cereal that might make a decent substitution.
Just be cautious of anything with a high sugar content (that would be anything where sugar is listed in the first couple of ingrediants)

I'm under the impression that Total is used because it has a higher percentage of many different vitamins and minerals then most grain cereals, not just vitamin C. (The name"Total" is suppose to be a commercial gimmick making you think you're getting your total dietary requirements met when you eat this cereal) It does seem to have a lot higher percentages then most cereals.

What percentages of vitamins and minerals are listed on Vector?

To much salt is not good for ratties (just like it's not good for us)

Do you have any Co-Ops, Health Food Stores, or Organic/Natural Foods markets available to you? That would be a good place to look for puffed rice, unsalted sunflowers (which you still don't want to give to many of because of the high fat content) and other healthy snacks for your ratty.

I have a Co-Op near me where I buy bulk grains, cereals, nuts and soy crunchies for my ratties.
They love Bob's Red Mills 7 grain hot cereal that I buy there. I make a porridge for them with it and a little warmed up milk.

Dried fruit can include: cranberries, pineapple, papaya, apples, raisins, cherries, bananas,apricots..... just remember 2 things: 1) Ratties can choke on big, sticky bits of dried fruit, so be sure to chop it up tiny. 2) Oranges (& orange juice) is toxic to MALE rats!

Fresh fruits and veggies are also important.

Low protein dry dog food is a good source of nutrients too.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

_________________
Erika ~n~ The Clan

9 Girls ~ 13 Boys

**Playing at the Bridge ~ Lanigan, Tirna and Haggis ~ We miss you so much!**

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:57 am

I try to avoid nuts. They're pretty high-calorie and hight-protein. The problem with too much protein is some rats will have a reaction to it and get quite scabby.

Others have expressed concerns their rats may choke on the shells.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:30 am

Well, as i said i have a mix she eats and she really likes them. So i was wondering ( if i were to get like a different kind of mix) what kind would i give her as like a treat?

_________________
FEAR is what will Kill you
DEATH is what you'll see
but soon all the good will come
and you can fly FREE..

Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:52 pm

Well in that case--as a treat, unshelled and unsalted.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:28 pm

You can also get some shelled ones at most pet stores in the bird food section. I got my boys a big bag of them I give them as a treat, at a Petsmart in the bird section. Of course, since they are for birds they are unsalted.
In response to the claim of rats choking on the shells, I have never had a problem with it. My boys are quite adept at splitting the shell in half and getting the seed out of the middle. They have been eating them forever, and have never once choked on a shell. That's not to say they cannot choke on them, it could happen I am sure, mine just never have.

_________________
Lydelia and the Critters
... and now they are five Mr. Green

Kitties: Miss Kitty, Catbot
Ratties: Eugenuis, Ralph and Elliott
RIP Oliver -- We love you and we'll miss you!!! Cry

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:22 am

The vitamin E is good for them. As long as you don't give so many that they get fat and scabby. My boys have pumpkin seeds in their regular mix, for the same reason.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:13 am

I bought my rats Reggie Rat Premium Complete Food as I thought this would be ideal, but the lady I bought the rats off of told me it wasn't a good idea, and when I looked at the protein I saw that it was quite high, and as you know, food high in protein is not good for rats. So, anyway, the breeder told me to just give them dry rabbit food, the sort with little seed-type things in, and green bits that look like mini leaves, and little round-ish orange bits. I read somewhere that you should not give rats rabbit food, but the rats don't seem to be complaining, and the breeder said it was fine. I can't help thinking there may be a major reason why they cannot have rabbit food. Any ideas anyone?

_________________
Chester the Chocolate Berkshire rat.
Logan (Puddin') the Agouti rat.
Diesel the Black Rex rat.
Jazz & Tango the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel dogs.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:18 am

Feeding rats rabbit food is a very bad idea... rabbit food is made primarily with alfalfa and rats cannot digest this. Rabbits are herbivores and rats are omnivores.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:36 am

Ok, so my boys are being silly and only eatting the corn, sunflower seeds, and dogfood out of their rat food. Should I just skip buying ratfood and just feed them Nutro lite? I do give them fruit and breads and such in the mornings to mix it up a bit. Just seems like such a waste.

_________________
My zoo: Link, Cyrano de Bergerat, Pipsqueak and the girls Harley, Kira and Esie<:8 )~
Also, Arwen the garter snake, Merry the beta, 2 fantail goldfish, 4 applesnails (r.i.p. pinky), 3 cory cats and Evie, the Jack Russell Terrier.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:38 am

Actually rats shouldn't have seeds that much either. They're too high in protein too. Most commercial rat diets are no good, please take a look at Suebee's rat diet or get them Harlan or Mazuri lab blocks (don't feed them anything Kaytee, it stinks!). I believe the only "good" commercial rat diet available is Oxbow, but I know of people who aren't fond of it either.

If you have to feed them something commercial the Reggie Rat is best for them until you can find a better food at a price you can afford.

You can find a link to Suebee's rat diet under the general rat care part of this site. Check your local feeds stores for the harlan or mazuri blocks, if they don't have them they can probably order them. I feed mine a combo of a variation of the Suebee's diet, Nutro natural lite dog food, and Harlan 2018 vegetarian lab blocks. They also get losts of fresh fruit, veggies, fish, yogurt, whole grain crackers...good healthy stuff (in moderation of course). I get my lab blocks from a rescue, I can give you the link if you like.

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Rats~Janine, Madeleine, Cooper, Basil, Dolly, Kitty, Ilori, Theo, Elliot, Vladimir, Freya, Devi, Yoshimi, Nigel, Rosshalde, Faust, Tolkien, Caleb, Mira, Ivy, Nemo, Willow, Nikolas, Lucian & Linus
Mice~Molly, James & Will
Beardie~Cleo

Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:39 pm

It depends a lot on the type of rabbit food. Many breeders in the UK feed their rats a base diet of ALpha herbal Deluxe Rabbit which does not contain alfalfa and is ideally balanced as a base food for the rats. As long as there is no (or very limited amounts) of alfalfa and the rabbit food is around 12% protein, a rabbit food as a base diet can be better than certain brands of rat foods. Rats don't eat alfalfa so therefore what it says on the side of the bag becomes unbalanced if there is too much alfalfa in there.
You should not feed rats on bird or hamster mixes with seeds and nuts, that is just plain stupid as they are too high in protein and will cause scabby rats and other health problems.

_________________
Estelle
Alpha Centauri Stud, Somerset, UK
http://www.alphacentauri-rats.co.uk
http://www.ratz.co.uk

Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:46 pm

If they are adults, you really should refuse to fill their food bowls up until they have finished the large majority of the food you put down as seeds, corn and dogfood will be too high in protein for bucks and cause skin problems, plus other health problems. Rats need a balanced diet containing reasonable percentages of all 4 food groups and if they are managing to get away with picking only the bits they like, you are feeding them too much in one sitting. Don't give them extra treats when they still have loads in their food bowl - think of this in terms of kids - they will often more than happily leave their vegetables in favour of chocolates or sweets or eat too many chocolate and sweet snacks between meals and not have enough room for their proper meals and we all know that eating too much junk food between meals makes kids spotty and causes weight and other problems!

_________________
Estelle
Alpha Centauri Stud, Somerset, UK
http://www.alphacentauri-rats.co.uk
http://www.ratz.co.uk

Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:52 pm

Ok I really don't know what to definitely get them now! lol. I've looked for lab blocks, but can't find them anywhere, at least one person's said no to bird food, hamster food, rabbit food and reggie rat food. So now I'm just confused I suppose. The rabbit food is from the fruit and vegetables shop in my area. You just scoop it up into a bag. So I have no idea what it contains or how much protein etc is in it. The rats seem to be fine eating it, and they've had it for about 2 weeks. I also give them a small amount of dried vegetables. I could try and find out what is in the rabbit food I buy, but I doubt the shop will be able to tell me as it just comes in bulk, I will try though. If anyone can further help or "un-confuse" me, please do

_________________
Chester the Chocolate Berkshire rat.
Logan (Puddin') the Agouti rat.
Diesel the Black Rex rat.
Jazz & Tango the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel dogs.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:03 pm

I give my rats reggie rat mainly because of it's availability. I've tried making suebees diet, but if you're in England you'll probably find it fairly tough to get hold of the ingredients... the English version is better, but the Alpha herbal Deluxe Rabbit is a right pain to get hold of too! My nearest stockist is miles away.
Anyway, I supplement their diet with a bit of whatever I'm having most days (the days they get nothing are the days I have curry!). I often chuck in some dry pasta and cucumber, too.
I've never seen lab blocks - I've only ever seen reggie rat as commercial rat food.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:51 pm

Ellie-
As far as I can tell, this is the most hotly debated issue in rat keeping. Everyone has their own opinion. Some say Nutro Lite's the thing, others swear by lab blocks. Most seem to agree on SueBees mix (which I what I think I'll switch to soon), but so far I have never seen anything like a consensus on this issue, so my personal advice to you is to do some experimentation, find out what your ratties like within these foods, then watch to see if they have problems (scabbiness from extra protein, etc.)

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:17 pm

Well, what was worrying me is that they had gone a good day without eatting any of it. They were leaving the oats and grains behind.

_________________
My zoo: Link, Cyrano de Bergerat, Pipsqueak and the girls Harley, Kira and Esie<:8 )~
Also, Arwen the garter snake, Merry the beta, 2 fantail goldfish, 4 applesnails (r.i.p. pinky), 3 cory cats and Evie, the Jack Russell Terrier.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:26 pm

I wouldn't worry, Alisha. Generally speaking, they'll eat when they get hungry. When I was a kid, instead of fighting with me about what I would or wouldn't eat, my mother removed the power struggle by putting me on "No snack status." If I didn't eat my breakfast, no snacks 'til lunch, if I didn't eat my lunch, no snacks 'til dinner, that sort of thing. Sure, from time to time I got hungry, but I learned quickly to eat good stuff when it was time, instead of whatever my little kid's heart desired whenever I wanted it. And, even better, my mom didn't have to fight me about it

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:13 pm

Yeah, as Sarah said everyone has a different opinion on the subject, especially on protein levels - so see what works for you and your rats...

I feed Harlan Teklad lab blocks mixed with a few of Suebee's mix ingredients just for some variety... but the blocks are nutritionally complete alone. The Harlan Teklad blocks are rated #1 lab block by the RMCA.

You can buy them from Kim's Ark Rodent Rescue - the price is cheap plus all proceeds go to the rescue rats!

Here's the link to the Ark Store:

http://www.kimsarkrescue.org/store.html

_________________
~~~(---)8> JoAnna <8(---)~~~

Join the North East U.S. Rat Lovers Yahoo Group! groups.yahoo.com/group/NERatLovers

Adopt a rat from Kim's Ark Rodent Rescue www.kimsarkrescue.org

Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:28 am

	Ellie wrote:
	I could try and find out what is in the rabbit food I buy, but I doubt the shop will be able to tell me as it just comes in bulk, I will try though.

I see no reason why they can't tell you - the large bulk sacks should have the ingredients listed - I would also ask for the nutritional breakdown ie protein, copper etc - which should also be on the sacks. Take a pen with you! I would be very surprised if the they don't have the ingredients on the sacks.

_________________
Joolz Rainbow Smiley

Blossom, Opal, Jorja & Evie <:3 )~~~

Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:27 pm

Last night I had a few potato chips, then stuck my hand in the mouse cage without thinking. This is the new cage, with the three new girls plus Yoli. They attacked my hand and licked it to death, holding on to my fingers so as not to let them get away. I stood there giggling and letting them lick the salt from my fingers, amazed because this was the first time they have not run away from me in terror. The only problem was Badger, who wanted to bite my fingers rather than licking, so I had to keep telling her no and jerking my finger back or bopping her softly on the head with it. She still didn't get the picture, but I hope she will eventually.

My guess is that a lot of salt is not good for them (or for rats, which is why I'm posting this here rather than in the mouse forum). But the small amount of leftover salt and oil from the few chips I had would not do them harm, I thought, so I let them keep at it.

I wonder if this might be a good trust training idea. Or would even that little bit of salt be too much each day? Not that I want to eat chips every day, but I thought maybe could stick my hand in the bag and let them climb on me and lick, then quickly wash my hand and put it back in the cage and hope they still climb on me.

I seem to have found the magic ingredient -- for mice, anyway! I would not ever try this with Thimble, I think, since his teeth are bigger than theirs, and he already favors yogies more than the others do. He does a cute little yogie dance when I get out the treat jar, it's adorable.

Obviously I would not keep this salt finger lick thing going for long, only every other day or so until they no longer run in terror from my hand -- but is even that too long or too often to use salt, you think?

Plus, I'm concerned that they may begin to view my fingers as edible, something I don't want to have happen, obviously. I'm wondering if doing this for a little while just to establish trust is worth it.

Thanks for any opinions.

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Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous