RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:04 pm

Hello community ...

I saw a photo the other day of a lady holding her rat up only by it's scruff of the neck, feet dangling below and all that jazz. The rat *appeared* to be uncomfortable, and I couldnt help but think "aww, poor little thing!" Puppy Dog Eyes

Are rats like ferrets in that holding them by the scruff of their neck paralyzes them? I know that when the pet store employees cut my ferrets nails they sometimes hold her by the scruff of her neck to get her to hold still, and they say she doesnt feel anything ... maybe this is true for rats? If it *does* paralyze rats, is this something that you should do to get them to hold still for emergencies like cleaning out a cut, cutting nails, or getting them to take their meds?

Thanks in advance

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Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:06 pm

My vet does this to bear when she cuts her teeth, because bear squrims,

Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:29 pm

It doesn't paralyze them, but I think it's one of the more comfortable ways to hold them. I don't feel it hurts them. I use it when necessary, the same way I would with a cat.

I think that hands down the best way to hold them is against a table with your index and middle finger in front of their front legs and your thumb and ring finger (and pinky) behind their front legs. You use your palm to keep their butt against the table and you can basically keep them still. The problem with the scruff in ratties is that most can squirm out of it.

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Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:12 pm

Unlike cats & dogs and even ferrets rats do not carry their young by the scruff, and naturally rats don't have much of a scruff... Picking them up by it or holding them by it can be very painful, just like holding them by the tail. If your rat is squirmy enough it could easily break their neck. I would never do it and highly reccomend that others don't do it either. Rats can be easily restrained by cradeling them in your hands, sometimes it might require two people depending on what has to be done, but thats much better than attempting to scruff them and possibly injuring them.

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Melissa Hubbard
www.pixiesworld.com

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:04 am

Rats don't have the scruff reflex once they are past babyhood - in other animals, it doesn't paralyse them as such - it just triggers off the reflex to go limp and still. While I know mother rats will move their babies around by carrying them by their scruffs, it's not well developed in adults.

As for scruffing breaking their necks - I must admit, I somehow doubt it, as there isn't pressure in the spinal column itself - while I don't doubt it would be uncomfortable to keep them scruffed for any length of time with no other support, it really won't hurt them to keep them scruffed to restrain them while taking their weight either with your hands or a table. In fact, when giving injections, the best way I've found (thanks to my vet) of holding them is to advance from the front, scruff them (as in pull up the skin of the scruff) with your hand approaching over their head and inject them from the front - they're much less likely to jerk away and injure themselves or you.

If you scruff them in this way, they find it very hard to get out of the grip, and it doesn't have the weight pulling on the scruff. But most rats will really dislike having their feet waving in the air anyway as it makes them feel very insecure. Restraining for teeth trimming is a pain in the backside (it took two of us to trim Charlie's teeth every time, as he'd put his paws in between the jaws of the clippers Shocked

) and this method doesn't work well - we always resorted to me being in a semi recumbant position on the bed/sofa with my knees bent, and Charlie restrained against my thighs - I held him upright in that position and held his paws. My flatmate would steady and open his mouth with one hand, and try to quickly trim with the other hand.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:06 am

Uhhh hm. I used to scruff my rats just to kiss their bellies. I'm evil, yes. I won't do that any more after reading this! Don't hate me!

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Arvay and the Squirmin' Vermin

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'

--Erma Bombeck

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:37 am

I scruff mine to kiss their bellies. They have lots of rolls which are good for gathering up behind their heads and holding them still. If I break their necks.. they'll die with sufficiently smooched and snuffled tums.

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--Brittany

"He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom."

Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:40 pm

I've always had the impression with my rats that they weren't actually attached to their skin, except at the hands, feet, and nose. The rest--they can just pull here, slide there, bunch around here, pinch off there. It's always fascinated me the way they yank their skin around to groom themselves everywhere, including places they wouldn't be able to reach if their skin were actually attached.

All part of the charm of squidge! lurve

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Arvay and the Squirmin' Vermin

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'

--Erma Bombeck

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:01 am

I wasn't implying that by only scruffing them you could break their necks, what I was trying to say was if someone was scruffing who had no idea what they are doing they could very easily hurt their rats, its not comfortable for them. And if a rat were to violently squirm as they might do when they feel insecure they could snap their necks that way while being scruffed. All around I just don't see the point to scruffing. I have never scruffed one of my rats and they have been able to get shots, take meds, have teeth clipped and get their bellies kissed all the same.
I have also never seen a mother rat scruff her young specifically, but rather grab them with her teeth at any available portion of the body that is most accessible to her at that moment in time even if it is a tail, leg, nose, ear, or scruff...

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Melissa Hubbard
www.pixiesworld.com

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:09 am

My new momma does that too, she moves her babies around like they arent babies sometimes..wether shes grabbing their back..their butt..their neck..their HEAD..Im always a little worried and wish she would be more gentle..but they seem okay for the ware.

I think scruffing does depend on the rat- as pointed out, some rats have very loose rolly skin, and although I -do- think to be suspended in the air by neck fat would not be comfy at ALL, I think with the fatty rolly rats, it would be okay to do just to hold them in place (with their feet/weight still placed on the table top.) Rats who are not fat and are in shape I would think would be even more uncomfortable. Some of my female rats just dont have that kind of skin around their necks, and I think it would bruise/hurt them- where as my two old fatties probably wouldent mind at all if I gently pinched and pulled back at the scruff of their neck.

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Megan and the Hyper Hoppers. Blueberry and Butterfly, Naked Evee, and Chii.

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:20 am

Hey, easy, I said I'd never do it again!

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Arvay and the Squirmin' Vermin

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'

--Erma Bombeck

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:34 am

lol Arvay... Just so you know, I wasn't (and im sure no one else was either) trying to tell you that you are wrong for scruffing or that you should stop... We are all here to converse, give our opinions and hopefully in the end have scooped up enough info in our conversation to give us all an answer or conclusion. When it all comes down to it, in any informative conversation always use your best judgement calls in deciding what to do because a gut feeling brought on by healthy information is usually correct.

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Melissa Hubbard
www.pixiesworld.com

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:38 am

Oh no, actually in this case I do think that I torture my pets. Even Nad says I should quit "accidentally" dropping vegetables on Bunn's head (even though, darnit, I don't think Bunn deserves treats, so when I give them I just want to throw a little twist in there!)!

Mr. Green

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Arvay and the Squirmin' Vermin

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'

--Erma Bombeck

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:41 am

Scruffing a rat doesn't really paralyze them, but it can make them easier to control. This is often done in shows to get a better look at the animal, especially at their belly. It can also be done during medical treatment. Whenever it is done, however, the animal's weight should be supported. This is especially important for a large, full grown rat. As with scruffing an adult cat, you can easily injure the animal by accident if its weight is not properly supported.

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Black Wolf Rattery
Quality pet and show rats
http://www.angelfire.com/ms2/sorraiagardens/blackwolfrattery/rattery.html

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:29 am

Ferrets should not be held by the scruff, maby restrained that way but their long heavy body has to be supported or you could cause some major problems with them. As for rats I am no expert but I would think there is a huge difference between baby animals and adults. look at dogs and cats yes the mother carries them by the scruff but when they are full grown it is not possible. I myself would never hold my rat, ferret or any other animal in that way.

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:04 am

My vet's assistant scruffed Simon while the vet injected liquid laxative. Firmly but gently. Edit: Simon was on the table as well- firm support.

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~Paula~
Ratties: Frisco, Simon & Minna
Mousies: Polly & Pocket

Last edited by CricketSong on Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total

Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:04 am

I think the way to scruff would be one hand gently/firmly holding the scruff, and the other flat under the rats back legs for him to stand on / hold his weight. Then scruffing is a restraining method, rather than a holding method.

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Megan and the Hyper Hoppers. Blueberry and Butterfly, Naked Evee, and Chii.

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:00 am

Exactly. Wouldn't let them just dangle- as fat as mine are their skin would probably ooze off and they'd go *thunk* on the ground.

This is what I do when I scruff my rats:

Note extra fat butt secure on the ground.

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--Brittany

"He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom."

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:05 am

Ditto what I do - Either they're upright like that with their weight on my lap or a table, or they're all four paws on the surface and either way - it's a restraint rather than a holding position.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~