RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Thu May 12, 2005 8:13 pm

RatPalace, Breeding and You
Part 1: The short answers

What is the RatPalace stance on breeding?
The majority of the RatPalace community advocates responsible breeding.

What does this mean in practical terms?
If we believe the breeding is being carried out responsibly, with full understanding of and preparation for the consequences, we will lend our support.

If we believe that a person is breeding, or wishes to breed irresponsibly, we will strongly discourage this and explain why. We will not endorse, support, or encourage people we feel are not breeding with the best interests of all rats utmost.

How do you define responsible breeding?
Many factors influence responsible breeding.
The following points are the ones most often raised by the RatPalace community.

1) Rats should be bred primarily to improve health and temperament. All other factors should be secondary.
2) You should be able to financially support your rats at all times.
3) You should have access to a veterinary practice that is knowledgeable in rodent care.
4) You should be able to devote significant time to the breeding process.
5) You should be able to provide homes for every rat that you breed.
6) You should have an excellent grasp of rat genetics and understand why breeding a rat with an unknown history (including pet-store rats) is unwise.
7) You should understand and be prepared for the medical issues that commonly affect rats.
8) You should have an in-depth knowledge of rat husbandry.
9) You should be sure that your breeding will not adversely affect other rats in your area.

How do I know if I am ready to breed?
Should I breed?
Breeding: Can YOU Live With It?
Breeding: Beyond the Basics - Ethics
Think Before You Breed
A Responsible Breeder’s Code of Ethics

What is your advice for people who want to breed?
Careful research and preparation - with the acceptance that no matter how much you may want a litter, the time may just not be right for you - should be given first consideration. Many of the following links will help you to learn more, but nothing can replace interaction with other breeders to understand the principles of responsible breeding. Please note that this is just a selection of links, and you will need to pursue your own research.

Rat Organisations
American Fancy Rat and Mouse Association
Australian Rodent Fanciers Society of NSW
National Fancy Rat Society
Rat & Mouse Club of America
Rats and Mice Fanciers for Excellence

Breeder Lists
North American Rat Registry
Pet Rat Breeders
Petrat.ca
UK Online Rat Kittens Register

Genetics Information
Eva's Rat Genetics Page
Genetics Tutorial 101
Hawthorn Rat Varieties
RatBreeding.com
Rattie Rascals Rattery - Rat Colors & Genetics

General Rat Care & Breeding Guides
Curiosity Rats Rattery
Rodents Of Unusual Sweetness Rattery
Rat Behaviour
Rat Care & Information
Rat Guide
The Rat Fan Club

Note: There is currently no name for the young of rats that is accepted as standard worldwide and people use the words “kitten”, “ritten” and “pup” interchangeably. Throughout this FAQ, the word “kitten” has been used for the purposes of clarity, but other terms are equally as valid.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Sat May 14, 2005 9:35 pm; edited 2 times in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:18 pm

Part 2: The in-depth answers
Clarification of the points raised in the definition of responsible breeding.

“Rats should be bred primarily to improve health and temperament. All other factors should be secondary.”
There are many reasons why people choose to breed rats. The only reason the RatPalace community feels is a valid primary factor is to improve the health and temperament of rats. While ratteries will often concentrate on certain colours, ear type, or coat types, this should never be done at the expense of the health and wellbeing of the rats. Breeding to produce feeder rats is never acceptable, as we are a pets-only forum.

“You should be able to financially support your rats at all times.”
Breeding is an expensive process. The setup costs of your rattery, the upkeep of the rats in terms of food, bedding, and litter, advertising costs, and appropriate veterinary care can all consume a significant amount of money. Before even considering breeding, it is vital that you have enough money available to cover all worst-case scenarios that may arise. The cost will vary depending upon your location, but you should be willing and able to pay for emergency veterinary care at all times. You should be financially independent, and you cannot expect to make money from breeding rats responsibly.

“You should have access to a veterinary practice that is knowledgeable in rodent care.”
Medical emergencies occur at any time. This includes holidays, weekends, nights, and office hours. You should be able to obtain veterinary care for your rats at all times no matter the cost. Ideally the veterinary surgery should be within a reasonable travelling distance. You should also have transport to and from the surgery at all times. Your vet should be familiar with rats and have a good understanding of their health concerns as well as the differences between rats and other animals. Your vet should be capable of not only treating common health conditions, but of performing routine and emergency operations as well. A doe in labour that cannot deliver the kittens cannot afford to wait while you find a vet, nor should she be subjected to treatment by a vet who cannot care for her competently.

“You should be able to devote significant time to the breeding process.”
Apart from the time you will need to spend arranging the actual breeding of the rats, you should be willing to spend time socialising the kittens, arranging viewings by prospective owners, interviewing these owners, and arranging transport if necessary. In addition, should you have to hand-rear the kittens, you must be prepared to give all of your time to this process. In the worst case, you will be feeding the kittens every hour or two, day and night.

“You should be able to provide homes for every rat that you breed.”
Every rat that results from your breeding program is your responsibility. At a minimum, you should be able to home, feed, and treat every rat until the natural end of its life. This responsibility does not end when the rats are weaned and new homes are found. You are normally expected to take back any rat that, for whatever reason, can no longer be kept by the adopters. Culling litters (killing kittens that are deemed surplus to requirements) is frowned upon. Pet stores are not a viable alternative to proper homes for the kittens. You should be prepared to educate potential owners on the proper care of pet rats, and to refuse people you do not feel are capable of continuing the top-class care of your rats.

“You should have an excellent grasp of rat genetics and understand why breeding a rat with an unknown history (including pet-store rats) is unwise.”
The fundamental principles of breeding revolve around genetics. You cannot improve the rats that you produce if you do not have this knowledge. You should understand at least basic principles of Mendelian inheritance, as well as rat-specific genetic information. You will need to know the potential health issues that are associated with certain genes, as well as which tendencies to health problems can be hereditary. You should understand how to perform theoretical breedings using punnet squares, and be willing to keep detailed records of all rats resulting from your breeding program throughout their lives. Knowledge of the benefits and risks of both inbreeding and outbreeding is essential to understanding when these are beneficial to your breeding program. You should understand the potential risks of breeding rats that have an unknown history and why this should not be done except in the most extenuating circumstances by a very experienced breeder.

“You should understand and be prepared for the medical issues that commonly affect rats.”
While you are not expected to be a qualified veterinary professional, you should be aware of the health issues that may occur in your rats. This includes an awareness of common conditions and their symptoms, the ability to recognise non-specific signs that may suggest illness, knowledge of diseases that can spread from rat to rat, their severity in your location and the necessity of quarantine procedures. You should be prepared to deal appropriately with minor conditions at home under the guidance of your vet and be able to judge how urgently a rat may need medical attention. When you have a pregnant, birthing, or nursing doe, you should be able to recognise potential complications and know when to intervene. You should be prepared to deal with the loss of the doe and the subsequent care of the litter, and possibly the loss of the litter as well. Finally, you should be willing to abandon the breeding of a line if it becomes apparent the line is prone to a particular issue that prohibits continued breeding.

“You should have in-depth knowledge of rat husbandry.”
You should have good knowledge of general rat husbandry: bedding, litter, food, cleanliness, and so on. You will need to choose suitable breeding rats, know how to arrange the breeding process, and know how to judge if your rat has been successfully impregnated. You should understand the basic mechanics of a rat’s pregnancy, prenatal care, and birth preparations. You should know the stages of kitten growth, proper diets for the doe and the kittens, how to sex the kittens, and when to separate them. You must be able to recognise when the kittens are not thriving and know how to properly care for orphaned kittens. You should have all the supplies that you need to hand before you need them.

“You should be sure that your breeding will not adversely affect other rats in your area.”
Bear in mind that there are already many rats in rescues and shelters in desperate need of good and loving homes. While this in itself is not a sole reason not to breed, aiming for rescuing rather than breeding may be more suited to the area in which you live. Certain animal shelters will not take on rats as rescue cases, or will euthanize rather than try to rehome them. In such a situation, a shelter may well benefit the local rat population more than breeding more rats. Some people can combine rescuing with breeding, but this brings its own complications to be considered.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:38 pm

Frequently Asked Questions

â€œIs your way the only way?â€

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If you believe that some or all of these principles are not relevant to you and your breeding program, then you are free to hold that opinion. However, you will not find support from the community if we believe that your breeding principles will potentially lead to harm to rats, and members will often feel it necessary to inform you of what they perceive as risks you may be taking. We welcome discussion and dissenting opinions when presented according to the Posting Rules.

Thu May 12, 2005 8:39 pm

“What’s the big deal with pet-store rats? I’m not deliberately going to breed unhealthy or freak/deformed rats.”

While very few people would deliberately breed rats with health or temperament issues, without knowing the history of the lines that your rats came from you may unwittingly do so. There are many scenarios to consider, but a couple of examples have been given below.

Example 1

Certain lines of rat may be associated with megacolon. Kittens that are born with early-onset megacolon almost always have to be euthanized, or suffer a slow and painful death. Certain breeders have worked very hard with the lines at higher risk of early-onset megacolon to dramatically reduce the risk of breeding litters with megacolon. This is done only by keeping thorough records of several generations of the rats’ ancestors, checking various resources for any reported cases of megacolon in relations of the rats and their ancestors, and only breeding those rats that have displayed healthy litters without megacolon.

While rats may be healthy themselves, they may still be at risk of having litters affected by megacolon. If you decide to breed two rats that are apparently healthy but are linked to an increased chance of megacolon, you could breed a litter of kittens that ultimately succumb to the disease. If you are breeding from pet-store rats, it’s likely the breeder will not have kept thorough records and you won’t be able to adequately trace the rats’ history to find out if there is an associated risk, or if they are descended from lines where the risk has been reduced.

As a result, you may have a litter of beautiful kittens, and even find good homes for them with responsible owners. Unfortunately, when the rats reach their new homes, the new owners suddenly find that they have a very sick pet that they should have euthanized almost as soon as they have brought it home. If they are not aware of the symptoms of megacolon, they may not even be aware that it is kinder to do this before the rat gets too ill, resulting in unnecessary suffering for the rat.

Example 2

It is generally accepted that most rats have been exposed to, and carry, Mycoplasma pulmonis. This is a bacterium that causes a disease called mycoplasmosis, more commonly called “myco” in the rat community. At this time, there is no surefire way to eradicate carriage of myco. Most often myco will cause a respiratory infection, but it can also cause uterine infections in female rats.

Respiratory myco may present in one of three ways:

a) It may be carried as a commensal: that is, it does not cause ill health unless some trigger weakens the rat’s immune system and allows the myco to flare up, causing illness or leading to a secondary infection.

b) It may cause a silent illness: that is, the rat shows no outward symptoms for weeks or months, but during that time the infection is damaging the lungs and will eventually lead to more serious respiratory problems.

c) It may cause chronic illness: that is, the rat develops sneezing, wheezing or other respiratory problems from a young age that persist throughout the life of the rat.

Genetics play a part in how severely a rat will be affected by myco. A rat coming from a line where many of the related rats have displayed frequent flare-ups of myco or long-term health problems associated with myco is more at risk of these problems than a rat coming from a more myco-resistant line. It is not uncommon for rats to have one or two respiratory infections in their lives, and this is not necessarily a reason to not breed from them if they are otherwise healthy. However, if you know that a particular rat is likely to develop severe respiratory problems after a certain age, you may well choose not to continue that line.

If rats with an unknown history that are seemingly healthy at the age of 6 or 8 months (but are prone to severe problems later in life) are bred, the litters of kittens may also be prone to severe respiratory problems. If these kittens were then supplied to a pet store, and you choose to breed these rats, you might, without realising the risk until months later, produce yet more kittens that are prone to severe respiratory problems.

The quotes below demonstrate the physical and emotional pain to both rats and their owners as a result of chronic health problems. All of the conditions listed below may have a hereditary component, though individual quotes do not necessarily suggest that the breeders involved are following bad practices.

Quotes

manxgrrl wrote:

I had two litters with megacolon in a row. The first was one I fostered but did not breed, the second was my fault, though it did come rather unexpectedly as I bred pretty carefully from a high white husky line according to the "rules" the breeders I knew working with the line had figured out. Megacolon is an extremely tricky disease to predict sometimes as it is not as simple as a dominant vs. recessive gene. I, and the majority of the breeders I work with in the Northwest US and Canada, have really phased the husky markings out of our lines due to megacolon worries. Most of the people I know are now only breed dalmatian type high whites, which do not have the same megacolon issues as huskies do owing to a different set of genes causing the white spotting… Megacolon is horrible and heartbreaking and I wouldn't wish it on the worst person in the world.

LittleWillow wrote:

I see the misery something as common as an increased tendency to myco causes. I currently have three related rats that need nebulisation and antibiotics almost constantly because of their poor resistance to myco. It's costing me a lot of money and more importantly, heartbreak, to watch them suffer. I am simply glad that I have not condemned more rats to suffer like they are by breeding them because they're adorably cute.

Linda wrote:

Anyone who has lost a rat to a pituitary tumour will know how horrible it is to watch them struggle as the tumour affects their brain and all their functions. The tendency to get pituitary tumours is at least partially hereditary. Bugsy died from a pituitary tumour. More than half her babies did too, all at around 18 - 20 months. Of course, I couldn't tell when Bugsy was young that she would develop a pituitary tumour at 19 months old. If I had carried on breeding her, she might have had several more litters, with babies carrying a potential timebomb.

sorraia wrote:

I currently have two rats who are rat aggressive. They are related to each other [but] changing cagemates and even changing cages can cause these rats to attack their cagemates. I wasn't aware of it when I adopted these rats (from a breeder), but their rat-aggressiveness IS genetic. Some of the rats in their pedigrees are not only rat aggressive... one (maybe more) of those rats have seriously bitten people, one bit a show judge and destroyed that judge's knuckle... Problems such as these can be prevented by *NOT* breeding the animals. Problems like these are *VERY* hard to breed out, if not completely impossible.

	angelratgirl wrote:
	I did a purely selfish breeding one time. The girls I kept were wonderful and well socialized but died too soon because they all developed uterine tumors... it wasn't until after this that I found this forum.

	barrelracer199 wrote:
	One of my hairless rats has a mammary tumor... The "bittersweet" part of it is she is only a year old.

Linda wrote:

Last summer he had an abscess on his cheek, and because of his diabetes it didn't heal properly and formed a mass of scar tissue that he was forever catching with his claws. He couldn't have surgery for it, because he would have needed a skin graft (which wouldn't have healed) and because he was a very poor risk for anaesthetic. The scar tissue didn't bother him anyway, though it looked nasty. But a couple of weeks ago he developed a very aggressive tumour at the same site. In the last few days it had gone into his ear, and also twisted his jaw so that he couldn't chew. Over the weekend, he even struggled to drink or eat baby food, and I knew the time had come to let him go.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Fri May 13, 2005 2:27 am; edited 4 times in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:40 pm

“So does this mean that you will attack, judge or look down on anyone who owns pet-store rats?”

“Do you think that pedigree rats are better than ‘mongrel’ ones from unknown lines?”

“Do you want to control all of the rats because some are better than others?”

No. The problem comes when people want to breed from unknown lines, such as most pet-store rats, or from lines from unethical breeders who do not take proper precautions or keep records of their rats’ history. In an ideal world, all rats would be healthy and have great temperaments, be kept in good conditions prior to rehoming, and new owners would be educated about the needs of their rats. How this is achieved is a separate issue. Many people have wonderful and loving rats that were rescued from the feeder tank in a pet store, and it is possible for pet-store rats to live long, healthy and happy lives – but responsible breeding gives you a bigger bite at the apple, as it were.

Rat breeding is somewhat different from breeding in other circles. In the case of other animals, such as dogs and cats, more breeders are breeding specifically for showing. Some breeders will even think it a waste of a good animal if the new owner doesn’t plan to show it. However, rat breeding isn’t about producing perfect show animals. The vast majority of rats born to good breeders are pets. Not “just pets” or “only pets”. They’re not any less important because of that, just as show winners aren’t more important because they have a ribbon from a show. It’s about breeding healthy and happy rats that make wonderful pets.

Quotes

	Jill wrote:
	We love pet store ratties here equally. It's not a rattie's fault where it is born, and it doesn't deserve a home any less, and no one would ever be cruel to you for feeling sorry for an animal and taking it home.

	Debbie wrote:
	I too would like to make sure everyone is aware that we are not against pet-store ratties. I think sometimes when there are complaints about terrible pet stores, the topic of turning away from petstore ratties is brought up. Moreso in a "let's not support the icky pet stores by buying their pets and encouraging them to keep in business" than "pet-store ratties are a no-no."

Arvay wrote:

You seemed to me to imply that we discourage breeding because we only like "pedigreed" or "registered" rats. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I'd go so far as to say, without even counting, that the majority, I'd guess close to 85%, of the rats owned by people on this board are rescues from shelters or cruelty situations, or are plucked from feeder bins at unscrupulous pet stores in a moment of weakness, etc. Very few of us go out of our way to acquire exclusively show-quality rats. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to name even ONE that does. The other posters have already explained the true reason that we discourage breeding by nonprofessionals, so I won't go into that. But quite a few people have the misconception that you have (I hope had).

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:42 pm

“Isn’t this ‘reputable breeder’ world very cliquey?”

This isn’t the case at all. As mentioned in the previous answer, rat breeding has differences when compared with other animal-breeding circles. The primary goal is to produce healthy and happy animals and find good homes for them. In the vast majority of cases, these won’t be to breeding places, but to pet homes. While breeders may make arrangements between themselves to adopt certain kittens as “payment” for, say, providing a stud buck for a litter, that does not affect the vast majority of the litter.

Some people feel awkward approaching reputable breeders about adopting their kittens. While the array of questions may seem daunting for potential new owners, it is not meant to scare off honest people after a wonderful pet or several. Some people are convinced that they will be turned away because they are too inexperienced or not well-known enough. This, again, is a fallacy. Most breeders will reassure you on this point, and provide you with advice on basic rat care if it is needed.

While a breeder can refuse to home a rat with any person, at any point, this is mostly restricted for cases where the breeder feels the rat or rats would be in danger or at risk of neglect, or are wanted for nefarious purposes. As a reputable breeder, it is up to you to educate the new owners and protect your rats by refusing to home them if you feel they would be at risk. However, there are no rules that state you should home your rats with certain select individuals or restrict them to people who plan to breed or show.

If you wish to become involved in the breeding world and can demonstrate that you are approaching the plan responsibly by having researched every aspect thoroughly, then existing breeders will welcome you. There are certain standards that are expected of breeders in various clubs or organisations, but these, again, are to protect the welfare of the rats, and improve the species as a whole. Responsible breeders will also understand that things don’t always go to plan, and on the whole will understand and support you in those situations, not attack you, as long as you have maintained good breeding practices.

Thu May 12, 2005 8:45 pm

“Why do you discourage people from breeding when they are young and/or financially dependent on their parents?”

“I don’t have a lot of money, but why should that stop me from being a good breeder? After all, complications are pretty rare.”

All too often, we see posts from people who need to get their rat veterinary treatment but cannot do so because they are reliant on their parents or others for money and the other party is unwilling to pay. While we encourage all rat owners, including young people, to find a way to create an emergency vet fund, this can very quickly be reduced to nothing. If you do not have the ability to raise the funds immediately for potentially lifesaving treatment for the doe and all kittens, then you cannot guarantee their safety. This is particularly important when you are responsible for bringing those lives into the world.

Unfortunately, the word of someone to help out financially cannot be depended upon. Situations change, and people have a change of heart or are simply unaware of the potential costs that could be incurred. Unless you have literally got the cash in an account that you personally can mark as being for the sole purpose of treating the rats, you cannot be assured that the funds are there for use.

While many rats will proceed to have uneventful deliveries and raise the kittens successfully, things do go wrong, and you have to be capable of dealing with the worst-case scenario. You cannot hope that you will be one of the lucky ones not to experience problems. Life-saving surgery, such as a caesarean section for a rat having birthing problems, may save the doe and some or all of the kittens. However, this particular course of action runs to hundreds of dollars in the US. While we can’t give exact prices in all parts of the world, your veterinary surgeon should be able to give you an estimate of the costs involved. Similarly, an outbreak of illness that requires the treatment of all rats in your care can run to similar, or higher, figures. This kind of money is often unavailable if you have limited income or are dependent on others for financial support.

Quotes

Note: all dollar prices are US dollars

	ShadowWolf wrote:
	Will you be able (or in time) to get her to the vet should she need an emergency C-section? They're not cheap. My vet quoted me at $600+antibiotics/pain meds and she's relatively inexpensive.

	Referring to an SDA outbreak, ShadowWolf wrote:
	These things are nothing to mess with -- believe me, the $1500 vet bill I have to pay off should be reason enough for people to learn that these things are anything but minimal in the world of rats.

	Referring to respiratory symptoms, Jill wrote:
	All girls healthy, one girl a little sneezy... vet drama over, and I'm two-hundred bucks poorer... but that's worth how much better I feel.

	Referring to an abscess and subsequent complications/emergency surgery, LittleWillow wrote:
	Cost nearly £300 [$570] so far, £265 [$500] was from last night. But what can you do? There was no way we could leave him overnight.

	reesesgma wrote:
	I have been hard strapped for cash in the past and have found vets you will do payment plans.... I know it seems like a lot to pay for a ittle bitty but when I had a 200 [dollar] bill for a tumor the option was easily made.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:47 pm

“What’s the big deal about understanding genetics when they all seem to be about appearance, if appearance is not a valid reason for breeding?”

While understanding the genetics of breeding might, on the surface, appear to be solely related to coat colour or ear type, it also includes understanding the heredity of potential health and temperament issues, knowing how to trace family histories, and a certain amount of judgement. While there are some firm rules to genetics where things are controlled by a single gene, many features are polygenic (linked to the intermingling of several different genes) and much more complex.

While breeding for specific colours or ears or coat types regardless of health or temperament problems is generally frowned upon, producing healthy, good-natured rats that happen to be fawn, dumbo or rex is not – as long as the appearance isn’t at the expense of the health and temperament.

To maintain a healthy gene pool among the species as a whole and your breeding stock specifically, you need to understand the principles of inbreeding and outbreeding and when it is appropriate to use each option. Both can be potentially damaging to the rats and to your breeding efforts if used incorrectly.

Finally, there are the issues covered in earlier questions regarding problems that may be linked to certain colours or markings. If you are not aware of this, and are not aware of the lines of rats where this risk has been reduced or bred out, you could inadvertently produce an unhealthy litter.

Quotes

Ryanson wrote:

Oi, genetics. Such a tricky thing. Blatant ignorance is irresponsible, but even to those familiar with genetics trying to determine what is beneficial, and what is detrimental can be hard to discern. Supposing on one hand that one knows a considerable amount to a rat’s phenotype and possibly even genotype, there are thousands of unaccounted characteristics still hidden in any given genotype. And since a gene pool is dependent on variation for the survival of any given deme (the breeding population) factors that drastically pull any given allele out of equilibrium could result in 100% reduction of a dominate or recessive trait. This could be good or bad; we really can't say for sure. "Weeding" things out, could possibly have unexpected consequences. Another myth is that all dominant genes are "good". Not true, as is the case with Pearling. While there isn't any doubt that a [reputable] breeder would not breed a carrier of… any known detriment, there is still much we have to learn about genetics. What breeders and future breeders can do is educate themselves. Even with all the best planning, and intentions there are an infinite number of unforeseeable consequences. The best we can do is be aware of as many factors in the breeding population as possible.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:49 pm

“What is the importance of a vet who has a lot of rat experience in relation to breeding?”

In the same way that a pregnant human finds a doctor who specialises in obstetrics, it’s only fair to the doe you are breeding to have a good vet who is experienced in rat care and whom you would trust to intervene at any point. If you can’t trust your current vet to provide top-level modern care and accurate diagnoses, then you probably should not trust her to provide care for your pregnant or nursing does and litters. If you would not trust your vet to perform routine operations (spays, neuters, tumor removals and so on), then you probably shouldn’t trust him to perform an emergency caesarean and/or spay on your doe. If your vet does not provide emergency services to rats outside of normal office hours, then you should find an alternative veterinary practice.

Thu May 12, 2005 8:50 pm

“I see so many photos of litters on the forums with positive responses from other members, and lots of them seem to be from people who are not responsible breeders. Why is it ok for them, but not for me?”

Litters generally fall into one of three categories: unpreventable accidental litters, preventable accidental litters, and deliberate breeding.

We understand that accidents happen, and unpreventable accidental litters are just that sort of situation. People will adopt rats that later prove to have become pregnant prior to the adoption, and in such cases, the owner could not have prevented the accident from occurring. There is nothing to be achieved by repeating the potential risks of irresponsible breeding to someone who has not done so. Where we can, we may suggest ways to reduce the risk of the situation arising again. Often the person needs extra support because they will not be prepared for the litter, and it would serve no purpose (except to potentially hurt the rats) to refuse that help.

Preventable accidental litters include those that occur when people let unaltered rats of the opposite sex play together, make little or no effort to keep the males and females separated, or put them together just to see what happens. Rats can breed in just a few seconds, and it is never safe to allow them time together if they are both unaltered.

Deliberate breeding carried out after months of planning and preparation by a responsible breeder is, again, not the problem. As a result, this kind of litter is also supported by the members of the forum.

In the cases of preventable accidents and, particularly, of deliberate irresponsible breeding, the support of the members tends to be much lower because the members often feel it wrong to support these actions by praising the litter. While members will generally step in to give advice if an emergency was to arise with one of these litters, many people will not comment on the litter itself.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:52 pm

“What’s the deal with mentoring?”

If you have a mentor or mentors you can turn to, you can learn from the experience of a responsible breeder and ensure that you produce the healthiest, happiest, and friendliest rats that you possibly can. A mentor can guide you through the whole process from selecting the doe and buck to working out the genetics issues, and can support you throughout the pregnancy and raising of the kittens. In an emergency, mentors are a valuable asset as they may well have experienced the same situation you have. Even if they haven’t, their in-depth rat knowledge can often be enough in itself.

Not all breeders are made equal. Some are better or more responsible than others, and it is your duty to find a mentor that you respect, rather than simply staying with one breeder out of a sense of obligation if you are concerned about any aspects of their breeding process.

Quotes

manxgrrl wrote:

I kept rats for about 5 years before I started breeding and I started with a club and several experienced mentors to back me up and help with questions, pedigrees, genetics, etc… What I do sometimes do is work with non-breeders who adopt from me for pets who want to experience raising and socializing a litter. I offer guidance in choosing a mate for the rat I've placed with them and in placement of the babies.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:53 pm

“What about all these organisations, and does it really matter if my mentor isn’t involved with them?”

While there may be good reasons for your mentor not to be part of these clubs, organisations, or a database of registered breeders, it may mean that there are issues with their breeding program. This is in no way meant to suggest that all breeders who are not members are irresponsible breeders, but you need to ask them questions and judge for yourself why they are not involved with these groups.

The benefit of registration and being involved in these clubs is you will have a national database of rat records to fall back on, as well as meeting other breeders from your area and having a larger support network. It also allows other breeders and prospective owners to see that you are following good breeding practices.

Quotes

	manxgrrl wrote:
	I also check with the North American Rat Registry, for which I pay yearly dues, to see if any other breeders with close relatives of rats I'm considering pairing have had health or behavioural issues.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:55 pm

â€œWhy do you make such a fuss over potential breeders being inexperienced? Surely everyone is inexperienced the first time they breed a litter.â€

If you have a mentor, you may have already been involved in some breeding, even if you have been assisting rather than running the breeding. However the main issue here is differentiating between being inexperienced at breeding and being inexperienced in caring for rats. Many of the objections we have are to people who are lacking in basic rat husbandry and health care skills. If someone is unaware of the existence of porphyrin and what this might signify, does not know the importance of quarantine procedures (in general or specifically to their own location), or does not know how to socialise a rat, there is a good chance they will be lacking general knowledge that will become much more important when they have a nursing doe and a litter of kittens to care for and raise.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:57 pm

“Why is it so important to get good homes for the litter? Why can’t I just let the local pet store rehome them?”

You are responsible for each and every single rat that you breed. This means that you should be willing to home every single rat until the end of its natural life, even if you have a litter of 20 or more kittens. If you are not willing or able to do this, then you should not be breeding them.

If you give the kittens to a pet store, you have no control over the homes that these kittens go to. If the kittens are lucky, they will find their way to people who care enough to educate themselves on the best rat care possible. However, many may end up in homes where - either through ignorance or neglect - they are mistreated. If the pet store supplies live feeder rats, there is the possibility that the kittens that you have raised and socialised and given the best care will end up as a reptile dinner.

A good breeder cannot keep accurate records if they are unable to trace and contact all of the people who have adopted their rats. Neither can they inform the owners if there is a potential problem that they should look out for. In addition, many breeders will specify in their contracts that if the person can no longer keep the rat, the breeder should be contacted first to take the rat back, no matter how long after the original adoption.

Some breeders will “palm off” the uninteresting rats, or rats with less than perfect markings or colours, in order to concentrate on breeding more intensively or selling the “better” rats for more money. Some breeders will even thin the litter by culling certain kittens. Many people frown on both of these practices; to them, every single kitten is as valuable as the next, no matter what.

Quotes

manxgrrl wrote:

I also get at least a couple emails a month from people with litters wanting help with placement… I've also helped out with a friend who is a Humane Society volunteer and who has seen countless rats put to sleep because they were unwanted… I have the policy on all adoptees that I will take them back no questions asked if ever someone cannot keep them. And I have done that on more than a few occasions. As a breeder, I never want my guys to end up euthanized because someone dumped them or didn't want them anymore. I never want to contribute to the "excess" rat population.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 12, 2005 8:59 pm

â€œOK, so I have read through this, and I still disagree and plan to breed my rats. Am I welcome at RatPalace?â€

While you wonâ€™t find much support for your breeding practices, and any questions you ask related to your breeding will probably be met with suggestions that you halt your breeding, you are still welcome to post non-breeding issues to the forums and we will try to help as far as we can, and you are welcome to contribute. The only stipulation is that you follow the Rules for Posting at all times. As these rules state, feeder breeders, flaming, defamatory comments, personal attacks, and trolling are not permitted on the forums. We welcome adult discussion of all issues, but please bear in mind that the topic of breeding is very provocative (on many forums, not just this one) and the reaction may well be strong.

We are all, at the end of the day, interested in the wellbeing of the rat and, as such, we would give advice and help to anyone if the rat is at risk at any point.

Quotes

lydelia wrote:

When I decided to make a change in my life last year that required a move and for me to give up my rats, I was scared to death. I didn't know who I was going to get to take them... Everyone was supportive. For those who read this thread in the future, RP is here to help and support you when you are making the best possible decisions for your rats, and to guide you when a decision you are planning to make may not be in their best interest. This forum, while run by humans, is about the rats. If we hurt your feelings, we're sorry, but if means that we save the life of a rat in the process, we feel that we did what we had to do.

Last edited by LittleWillow on Thu May 12, 2005 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total