RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:40 pm

A bit long, please bear with me...
Two nights ago I noticed that my largest rattie Scout has a large mass with a few scabby scratches and a bit of hair missing in those areas on his chest between his two front legs. To be honest, he looks identical to his two brothers who are in the same cage with him and I haven't been playing with them as much as I should over the past few months due to some family things keeping me preoccupied so I hadn't noticed it until now.

He hasn't been acting any different and didn't seem at all bothered by the mass; he isn't scratching more often or cleaning more often... or less; definitely didn't seem sick, there was just a lump there. I figured from pics I've seen on here that it was an abscess.

Immediately I prepared another cage for him - a smaller travel cage cuz I figured we'd be making a vet trip the next day - and separated him from his 3 brothers.

So I called some vets when I got up the next morning. The first one wanted $35 but could only see him 3 days later OR I could bring him in the NEXT morning and leave him there in HOPES that the vet could find two mins that day to look at him. Yeah right. Next vet wanted $56 for the appointment only - let alone any medication or treatment! A little steep for one rattie but they could see him immediately so we went there.

The vet was nice. She doesn't seem as knowledgeable about ratties as some of you do on here but she seemed competent. She examined him and immediately noticed that it was not one large mass... it's a whole bunch of smaller bumps - some little some large. She managed to get some greeny-yellow goop to come out of one - it didn't seem to hurt Scout- and she went and looked at it under the microscope. She said it is full of cells so it is not pus. (or maybe I got that backwards... hmm) Anyway, she gave us antibiotics to give 1/2 a cc to him 3 times a day (every 8 hours) for three weeks and told us to do a warm compress at the same time to try to draw out some of the infection. She said she will do a follow up with us for free in three weeks to see how he is doing. The medication she gave us is enough for 6 weeks so we can do an extra run of it if we need to. she thinks he has had a couple scratches that allowed bacteria to get in under the skin and infect it... This seems perfectly likely to me since the boys are always play fighting and rough housing... But the vet says she hasn't seen a case quite like this before...

which is why I want to get a second opinion here

Once we got him home again I set him up in a larger hospital cage. I cleaned it really well and then filled the bottom with carefresh. I made two new hammocks and put a brand new tube in as well. I put a kleenex box in filled with fabric scraps. And of course the new food bowl and water bottle. All he has done since he got home is burrowed himself a little indentation in the far back corner of the cage and lied there - not listlessly or anything but he definitely does seem different. I tend to think it is becuz he is missing his brothers/cagemates but the vet said it's probably not a great idea because his bros might harass him a little more and irritate it a little more and/or it would be easier for the infection to rub off on them. *sigh* So I don't know what to do to make him stop moping...

He doesn't play. He hasn't touched his new hammocks or toys. He just sleeps in the back corner. I think he has barely eaten since he went in the travel cage, the food dish seems untouched. The water isn't very much lower... I don't want to give him veggies or anything to give him diarrhea when he might be more susceptible to getting it/an upset stomach...

We haven't had too much trouble feeding him the antibiotic tho - he just eats it off a spoon with some yogurt (which the vet said was okay to do). - but the warm compresses are very difficult. I read just now that someone else is having trouble with that too so I don't feel so bad now but still... any tips on holding him would be appreciated. We are currently wrapping him up a little in teatowel to immobilize him. But since the affected area is right between his front legs they are always getting in the way. She gave us a few syringes and said we could force feed it to him by sticking the tip in the side of his mouth but it scares me to do that... I'm hoping too that now that the antibiotic has been in him for a good two days that the sleepiness and mopiness is due in part to it doing its magic antibiotic stuff...

Also, now that I've been doing the warm compresses, I've gotten a better look at the owies. There are indeed many bumps. Some are more bulbous and spherical... others seem less shapely... there is some hair missing around most of them... one looks a bit like a pic I saw on here of a really gross upraised sphere ball-like scabby wart (I think there was a *really gross pics* warning in the subject line) And then there are just a few tiny flat scratches on his skin more onto his shoulders and back - those don't seem infected ... yet - and those don't really have hair missing either - from a distance it just looks like he's got a larger flap of skin on his chest, sort of like bulls do? it made him look bigger, more manly (ratly?) does that make sense? I can try to take a pic but I don't have a digital cam... Sad

I read on here from Ratsicles I think that I should take the scabs off and try to squeeze them to get some stuff out but I can't get them to come off just by rubbing them with the wet compress/washcloth/teatowel... I'm not sure how hard to rub or not rub, I don't want to hurt him and I soooo dont want to pick them with my fingers... that makes me so sick to think about it (I know, I'm a baby...)

Also, a couple other things I've noticed... I noticed on his skin are patches of this orangey stuff... I was worried about this until I read from LittleWillow that it's buck grease or something and that it's natural. I was worried his skin was splotchy... even though the vet said his skin and coat look good. I personally thought his coat has been looking a little oily and dishevelled myself... I gave him a sponge bath with a damp cloth today to see if I could clean it up a bit, we'll see how it looks tomorrow. But I'm wondering what I could give him for oily coat? He has been fear pooping like crazy whenever we do the compress ... they seem a little wetter than normal - not runny or anything but a little wetter and a couple have been fairly large for a rat - bigger than rice size for sure. How does such a little rattie make such a big poop!!?! hehe I thought I might have seen a couple reddish-brownish looking things in his fur and I thought they might be moving too but there were only a few and the vet would have mentioned lice right? it can't be mites if I can see them... tho his brothers are itching a little more feverish lately...

*sigh* i just don't know... I'm trying not to forget any details...

I feed him Subees and Nutro. He's 1lb and he was born on April 10, 2005.
That's all the pertinent data I can think of right now... what does everyone think?

Thank you so sooo much!
pchez and Scout

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pchez
New mommy to Finn, Munch, Scout & Raymond

Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:43 pm

OK - if he's itching, from mites or some other bugginess, that could be enough to trigger off an infection like he has. It only takes a small break in the skin, so that could be related. If in doubt, speak to the vet about it.

Re: the abscesses - if there are scabs there over the abscesses, it really is best to get them off. I know it's gross, but it's better to have the infection out rather than in. See if you can get some rubber gloves if you really can't bear to touch it with your fingers, and try after it's been warmed with that washcloth. The heat softens things up and makes it easier to do.

Fear poops can be more runny than normal poops, so if it's only happening then, I wouldn't worry about it. If you are giving him yoghurt that should keep his tummy ok.

Don't change his diet though. If he gets diarrhoea, then that's down to the antibiotics and you need to up the amount of good bacteria in him using some probiotic powder from a health food shop or the vets.

Oily fur and buckgrease - buckgrease is no real issue, and he may be looking a bit rough and oily because it's harder for him to wash with all those abscesses.

His off colour behaviour - he has a whole crop of abscesses, chances are he's not feeling well at all. You can ask the vet for painkillers, or to let you know how much kids ibuprofen to give him to help him feel a bit more comfortable and less sore. Alternatively, it could be because he's missing his cagemates. If he was doing ok otherwise, I'd let him back with them, at least for some time during the day. The stress of being separated from them will probably not be helping him and generally it's best to only separate them if you really have to.

It's not usual for rats to get whole crops of abscesses, but it's not impossible. It might be linked to diet, hygeine, fighting, health issues like diabetes, being hairless etc. If all of those have been ruled out, then it might just be he's prone to them, or a one-off.

Finally, pus is a combination of white blood cells, dead and dying bacteria and dead tissues - so if it's full of those kinds of cells, it's pus.

I hope he feels better soon - which antibiotic is he on?

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:21 pm

I second all that LittleWillow said- I recently dealt with a baby rat who was *covered* in abscesses around his neck and under his arms, and we're only just now *finally* getting them all cleared up- he grew a second crop of them after the first was cleared up. I assume you read about that that, though since you referred to my posts.

You really need to drain them- like LW said, infection is better in than out and draining them will help him to heal a million times faster than he would otherwise. I know it's gross- but the best way to do it is just to grab the scab with your fingernail and rip it off, quickly, like removing a Band-Aid. Then grab the abscess at the base and squeeze all of the puss out- I know how horrible and disgusting it is, but but it needs to be done. It can sometimes be painful, sometimes not- he may scream and fight, but again, he'll be hurting alot worse with a bunch of undrained abscesses.

About the medication- I've found the best way to do it scruff the rat, holding his bottom on a solid surface, and just stick the syringe in behind his teeth, just inside the flaps of skin directly behind the teeth, and squirt before he has a chance to squirm out of your grip.

Medicating rats and treating wounds is best done in a very purposeful, quick, manner. Act like you know exactly what you're doing, even if you don't, and do it quickly. If you're tenative about doing something, or if you become frustrated, or if you're scared of doing something, the rats will pick up on that and respond to those emotions in a similar manner- and you'll both end up frustrated, upset, your rat will still have undrained abscesses and he'll be wearing most of his medication. I know this is all easier said than done- but in situations like this, you have to just do it. Grab him, scruff him, shoot some medicine down his throat, pull his scabs off, clean his abscesses, then shove a yogie in his mouth and send him on his way. It seems harsh, but your rats will actually appreciate getting things done, and getting them over with, and even if they may be mad at you in the moment, they WILL forgive you.
Our pets look to us for guidance- in the wild, they would look to the strongest, most confidant, most efficient, most purposeful rat to lead them- because they pick up on emotional cues and feed off of those. Just do what you have to do- don't think about it, do it quickly, and everyone will be happier in the long run. Mr. Green

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--Brittany

"He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom."

Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:32 am

Thank you guys so much for replying!!! My rattie mentors! hehe

I'm going to go get some rubber doctor gloves today and pull off the yuckies. I know I have to. We're having people for dinner so I spose I will wait until they leave first so as not to disgust them

I'm sure I will have to wipe bf off the floor too LOL and then me! I'm going to use the washcloth first like you suggested.

Just after I finished posting last night actually, he came out of hiding to play for a while - it wasn't very long but it was longer than before. He started exploring a little bit and this morning I actually found him sleeping in his hammock!! I put a sheet over his cage last night so that he might feel a little safer to explore and I guess it worked! He has been out and about a lot more today - trying to pull the sheet into the cage (I kept it on top of the cage) and just generally exploring.

He does look at little better today - not quite as puffy in the infected area I think!! - and since he's running about a bit more I feel better about things.

He doesn't seem very itchy at all so I'm not sure if it is buggies. His brothers in their cage seem to be a bit more itchy than normal but he doesn't. I don't really think it's buggies - I think it was more from play fighting/scratching/biting.

I feel better about the runnier fear poops now, thanks. And I haven't changed his diet - except for the fact that he's getting more yogurt than normal cuz it hides his meds. I'm going to have to try to force feed him though cuz he is starting to not eat it all at once and that creates a timing issue for the next dose! Do I squirt the whole 1/2 cc into his mouth at once?? Or just a little at a time? Wouldn't want him to choke, poor thing.

His behaviour seems more like normal today. I think he was just pouting about being away from his bros. If he goes back to what he was doing I'll try to put him back with his bros once a day or so - if I don't do that, do you think it will be difficult to put him back without incident on a full time basis when he's all better?

I really think all the owies have to be due to play fighting - he eats well, they're cleaned regularly, and he's not hairless... if he had diabetes wouldn't he be bigger than he is by now? He's not THAT much bigger than his brothers...

The antibiotic he's on is Chlor Palmitate... or Chlor Palm 125.... or Choramphenicol -palmitate oral suspension... All of that is on the bottle LOL

And I'm going to try ratsicles scruffing suggestion when it's time for his next dose. I am going to pretend like I know what I'm doing! Squrimy or no squirmy! Ick or no ick!

Thank you both so much!!!!
pchez and Scout

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pchez
New mommy to Finn, Munch, Scout & Raymond

Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:26 am

I really, really don't get why chloramphenicol has suddenly become a drug of choice in the first instance for so many rats - I wonder what the thinking is with these vets? Chlor Palm 125 is 25mg/ml - so he's getting 12.5mg every dose. Chloramphenicol Palmitate should be given at a dose of 50-200mg per Kg of rat, so your dose would be the minimum dose for a 250mg rat, if given 3 times a day. He's closer to twice that and you don't say how often you have to give it, so he's not getting a proper dose of the antibiotic - it's too low.

If you're giving half a ml in one go, then possibly squirt it in two lots rather than one to be sure he won't just spit it out... but in all honesty, I'd consider asking your vet about cefadroxil or cephalexin - both of those are very effective for skin infections (though abscesses don't do well if they have pus build up - because the pus doesn't have blood supply, and no blood supply means no antibiotic getting in - and so the pus needs to drain while the antibiotic treats the infected tissues around the pus). Chloramphenicol is a harsh antibiotic and usually retained for severe systemic infections (like septicemia, bone infections, spreading infections etc that aren't responding to anything else) and it's not too great at penetrating into skin - so if he doesn't heal up right away, do ask about other antibiotics like those two. They usually work miracles for skin infections.

Cefadroxil (cefa drops) should be given at 20mg per kg of rat twice a day (or 10mg per lb).
Cephalexin should be given at 60mg per kg of rat twice a day.

Ask your vet about either swapping to one of those, or upping the chloramphenicol - though I must admit I do have concerns about it. I wonder if this is a Canadian thing - I can think of 4 people recently who are Canadian and are or have been prescribed chloramphenicol for things like this.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:20 pm

When Damion had his abscess my vet prescribed the same stuff (Chlor Palm 125). I really really didn't like it. Damion was sick for just over a week after the dosing ended with the runs and just feeling very icky. He just refused to do anything, even eat his fav foods. I had to resort to force feeding him. Not saying that this will happen to your ratty...just what happened to mine and why I really don't like the stuff. I've heard really good stuff about the cefa drops so personally, I'd talk to the vet and see if they can get you something like that instead. Anyways...good luck with your ratty and hope he feels better really soon