RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:00 am

Aye - they do twist themselves into weird and wonderful positions. wink

It helps if you have an extra pair of hands.

Good Vibes

and hopefully this will soothe his itches a bit, and the vet can recommend the best course of treatment for him.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:37 am

Well, I took Ricky to the vet tonight, and there aren't any mites or anything. The only suggestion they could think of was to change his bedding (he's currently on Aspen shavings) in case he's sensitive to it. His scab is looking much better, I probably didnt really have to take him in after all, but I did just in case. They gave me some baytril, to help the scab along in its healing...for some reason I thought baytril was for something else?

Anyway, the good news is he's fine

Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:38 am

Pheebs, only one of my six boys showed scabs when they got mites. He had tiny scabs on the neck, shoulder, back area. I went through the same thought processes as you have regarding protein, why only one has scabs, etc. I could be wrong too, but once I treated for mites (I didn't do a vet test, she just agreed it was probably mites), the scabs cleared up. The boy was healthy, but kind of a runty boy. I could see no evidence of mites apart from the scabs--no tiny motes or anything. and the vet agreed that even skin scrapings or fur tapings often show negative. After much forum spelunking, I decided to go with kitten/puppy Revolution (selamectin) measured by weight and applied topically--tiny drop between the shoulders. Treated once and then again after two weeks. Cleaned cages religiously and froze bedding and vacuumed, but did not spray or dust with any other poison in their play areas. I was really worried the mites wouldn't be cleared up easily, but they seem to be gone (knock on wood). The scabs disappeared and have not been seen since. Anyway, that's just my experience and it may not be what is going on with your Ricky. I wish I could clip the toenails of my boys, but I have never been able to do it. I give up too easily I guess wink

Baytril for the scab--do they think he has a systemic infection like staph maybe?
Angela

Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:08 pm

Staph? I've never heard of that...he doesn't have an infection at all to my knowledge. His scab seemed to be clearing up fine on its own without any signs of infection. Do you think the baytril is unecessary?

I did mention to the vet that I thought it could be mites, but she said lice is more common, so she was looking for louse eggs and didn't see any (which I expected because I thought something like lice would be a little more visible)

He seems fine, he's not picking at his scab much and there aren't any new ones, its just been that one and a very small other one by his ear. His skin does seem really flaky though...I don't know if thats normal but just more noticeable on him because he's black hooded...was your rat flaky?

Can Revolution be bought in stores? I seem to remember using something like that way back when my cats had fleas...
What do you suggest I do? I don't trust the vets much because I've heard so much about mites in my research, but the vet seemed to just dismiss it as a possiblity...

Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:55 pm

No, the vet is probably wrong... mites are almost certainly more common and if she didn't do a skin scraping, she can't say they were checked for. Because some of them tend to lurk in the hair follicles or under the skin too, it can mean that even if you take skin scrapings, it can come back negative. Mites are definitely still a possibility and like Scrubjay, my vet usually doesn't bother with the skin scraping initially but goes based on symptoms. In each case, the ivermectin has cleared them up within a week.

Baytril is an antibiotic and a pretty broad spectrum one at that... it will protect against infections, and treat any infections already there.... Staph is short for Staphylococcus - it's a group of bacteria and some often live on skin. Usually it refers to Staph. aureus and often causes skin infections, wound infections, abscesses etc. It's unlikely to be serious but staph can cause minor or more major infections of the skin, making it hard to clear up scabs - no matter their origin.

I'm not sure if you can get revolution in stores, but you need to be very careful - you just need a fraction of the tube of the kitten product. It should really be done by weight, as should ivermectin. If you can't persuade the vet to prescribe ivermectin or Revolution and dose it for you, then you can also get ivermectin paste (horsewormer) from stores which you can carefully mix and give a tiny amount to them (the size of an uncooked grain of rice for a 1lb rat and more or less if they weigh more or less).

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:05 pm

Could the ivermectin hurt them if there are no mites? If not, then why wouldnt she prescribe something like that? All the mite symptoms are there, yet she pretty much dismissed that.

She weighed Ricky, but I can't remember what his weight was...they didnt give me any papers with the results of the exam or anything. The number 282 or 228 keeps popping into my head, but I suppose I can always call the vet and ask them to check his record. My rats are all around the same size...no one is really noticeably bigger than the other...would that be safe enough to go by with Revolution?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:55 pm

Theoretically, giving any medication unnecessarily should be avoided - but giving the ivermectin even if there aren't mites present isn't going to be harmful simply because the mites aren't there. It's not something to regularly do, but it's probably worth a try.

Aye - you can give them the revolution... Usually I'd recommend using a small syringe to measure it out because it's not a large dose in the product but if you're concerned about that, the worming paste would be ok - you'd want to give them a piece around half the size of an uncooked grain of rice.

The mauve kitten packet has (I believe) 0.25mls of solution in. Normally you'd give 0.1ml or 0.13mls to a 1kg rat (so up to half a tube for a 1kg rat). You'd be looking at giving a quarter of that if your rats are all around that size. I'm not sure how many "drops" each of those tubes contains though if you just drop it out directly....

Perhaps, if Scrubjay or someone else who has used it before can help out here - and let us know how many drops a tube produces, it can give an idea. I think I remember someone else (not sure who) saying that for small rats they put the drop onto something else and just rubbed a little of it onto the rat... I'm not sure though.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:01 am

The vet office gave me a small syringe for the baytril...I have to give Ricky baytril for 10 days, twice a day. If there still seems to be a problem after the medicine and after I change the bedding then should I go for it with the Revolution, using the little syringe to measure it out? Or is 10 days too long to wait to try treating for mites?

What kind of stores would sell ivermectin paste?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:15 am

To be honest, you can treat with the Baytril and the ivermectin/revolution at the same time. Did the vet see evidence that the wound was infected, or has she prescribed it simply as a "see what happens just in case" thing?

I'm not sure how easily you can get the revolution solution out of the tubes it comes in - you may need to use a needle to extract it, but a 1ml syringe would work in terms of measuring it... the problem is when dealing with such small volumes, it can be hard to measure and give them. Hopefully someone who has used Revolution can give you some more advice on it, or Scrubjay can.

The ivermectin paste is a horse worming paste. You may be able to get it at any feed/tack store, and even some larger pet stores perhaps. Otherwise, you can purcahse it online. If you go to http://www.ratguide.com/meds/ and select the antiinfectives section on the left, ivermectin and selamectin/Revolution will both be in the lists. They will give you some more advice, and if you check out the Health section, they also have an article on ectoparasites (mites, lice, fleas etc) and getting rid of them.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:48 am

Hi you guys,
The drawbacks to the Revolution is that you do have to weigh your rats and the amount you dose some of them can be ridiculously small and difficult (but not impossible!) to measure. I just bought a wonderful digital scale accurate to 2 g for weighing my rats. I can get the name when I get home--it was about $30 and I got it at Linens and Things--kind of a chain store. and the Revolution is kind of expensive and you have to have a prescription. But it did work great, it dried fast and the rats didn't lick at it, and as far as I know, no mites or lice are resistant. I can send you the formula I used for measuring doses of Revolution. My doses ranged from 0.02 ml to 0.05 ml, which I carefully measured using a 0.5 ml syringe. I'm kind of paranoid about such things.

Kitten Revolution is 60 mg/ml concentration. The correct dosage is 6 mg/kg.
Say your rat weighs 500 g, that equals 0.5 kg
6 mg x 0.5 kg = dose for your rat of 3 mg
3 mg divided by 60 mg/ml = 0.05 ml gives you the dose of 3 mg

I don't blame you if this is cryptic. My math is getting a little better since having to medicate rats, but I'm not good at explaining equations.

Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:27 am

Aye, I get you with the maths.

That's what I was trying to explain too... there's (I think) 0.25mls in a kitten tube, which is 15mg - enough for 2 kg of rat. But trying to divide that tiny amount is not easy to do. But definitely I'm with you about carefully working out dosages, especially with things like insecticide products like these and other drugs where it's very easy to overdose or underdose.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:21 am

Half the poison soaked into my own skin trying to measure it out the first time I did it. ooops. But I don't have mites I guess!