RatPalace.com - Pet Rat Care and Discussion

Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:52 am

All rat owners need to be very careful if they use a wire cage to house their rat! A rat's foot can get caught between the bars, get stuck and the rat will eather injur the skin and tendons or break it's leg like one of my rats did. plus they could get calluses that can become infected on their feet from climbing and standing on the wire bottom. If you do use a wire cage please for the safety of the rat put a peace of removable plexiglass on the bottom of the cage.

Last edited by Guest on Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:19 pm

OK

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Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:21 pm

Well, thats not always true.

The calluses I think you're referring to are bumblefoot and it hasn't been proved that they're caused by wire cages. It seems more likely that it's caused by dirty conditions. My rats are in a huge wire cage but I added levels myself one time and used a piece of flat plastic. They would pee, it couldn't drain off so it would pool on the plastic and they got bumblefoot. I know other people whose rats got bumblefoot due to laying in pee aswell. So that isn't always down to wire.

As for getting the feet caught, it's important that you buy a cage with the right spacing between the bars. If it's too big, your rat might get it's foot caught. I've had rats in wire cages for 6 years and never had a foot get caught.
Not saying it doesn't happen, just that you shouldn't act as if it's inevitable because if you have the right type of cage with the right spacing, it wont.

Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:31 pm

What Ziggy said. Wire cages, if made appropriately for rats, are perfectly safe and fine. You do need to make sure the bar spacing is small enough, but that isn't too difficult with all the cage options we have today. In personal experience I've had more problems with solid plastic shelving than I have with wire floors.

As a side note, please do not post in all caps. It is regarded as yelling and is considered rude. And it's also very hard on the eyes.

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Christy
RP Admin
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Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:56 pm

	Ziggy wrote:
	The calluses I think you're referring to are bumblefoot and it hasn't been proved that they're caused by wire cages. It seems more likely that it's caused by dirty conditions.

I still believe that most cases of bumblefoot are caused by problems with circulation and not necessarily by living conditions, the weight of the rat or the cage surface.

How else to explain why, out of 4 rats living in identical conditions, I have 1 with bumblefoot. Only one of her feet is affected and she had an infection in that foot some months ago, which seems to have led to the bumblefoot.
The majority of the rats I have had have never been troubled with bumblefoot, but of the ones that have, several were diagnosed with heart problems. Three were showing early signs of bumblefoot that cleared up after they were put on enacard.

I'm sure that dirty living conditions would probably make bumblefoot worse, and wire cage floors might not be very comfortable for a rat that has it, but I think there is usually some other cause underlying the condition.

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Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:53 pm

I agree with the others (AND WITH CHRISTY ABOUT THE CAPS) -- wire floors aren't the cause of bumblefoot, and wire cages with 1/2" x 1" or 1" X 1" walls aren't going to injure rats' legs either. A wire floor of PVC-coated 1/2" X 1/2" is safe for ratty feet, and the coating gives a bit of cushioning as well. Rats are more in danger of getting their feet caught in the wrong sort of cloth bedding that has unravelled or a ladder or ramp that isn't tightly secured to the levels or is made of inappropriate material than they are of injuring their feet on cage wire.

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~ Anonymous

Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:40 pm

WOAH

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Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:50 pm

For one thing I have a very reputable rat vet that has careed for my rats for the last 16 years. She was the person that told me about wire cages causing the foot calluses. My rat cages are always keep clean and get changed every other day so I know their cages aren't dirty! I have never had any problems health wise with me rats before when I had them in an aquarium my problems started when I put them in a wire cage. I for one will never use a wire cage for my rats again cause I don't want to have to deal with anymore foot problems caused by wire cages.
Sharon

Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:10 am

Hi Sharon,

That's fine if you don't want to use wire cages. Do what works best. We're just simply stating that there is nothing wrong with wire cages if they are properly made for rats. We just don't want new people reading and flipping out because they bought a nice rat cage made of wire and all of a sudden read that they are bad. Yes, they can be bad if not at the correct specs for rats. However there are companies out there that build wire cages specifically for rats that are perfectly safe.

To each his own - we're only sharing information just as you are.

BTW: Thank you for editing your post - much easier to read!

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Christy
RP Admin
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Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:09 am

	Linda wrote:
	The majority of the rats I have had have never been troubled with bumblefoot, but of the ones that have, several were diagnosed with heart problems.

My Willow had heart problems and she was one of only 2 of my rats to develop bumblefoot. I didn't know about the connection before.

Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:22 am

I've had my girls in wire cages for as long as I've had them, and have never had a problem, and the same for my past rats. I bought my cage from Martins Cages, so I know it is made especially for rats and high quality. Plus, they get plenty of time off of the wire because of out time and all the time they spend in their hammock. I also prefer wire to aquariums because like most girlies, my girls love to climb, and jump, and hang...
But as Christy says, to each his own

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Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:13 am

I've kept the majority of my rats in wire cages over the last 7 years and to date I've never seen a case of bumblefoot and I've never covered a wire shelf yet and don't plan to start.
I believe that bumblefoot is mostly caused by something hereditory and the heart problems definitely seem to have a link to rats getting bumblefoot problems.
If a rat has bumblefoot, then yes it does seem logical that wire shelves would be uncomfortable for a rat, but then it's also important to ensure that the bedding/shelves/floor of any cage is kept particularly clean when rats have open wounds on their feet.

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Estelle
Alpha Centauri Stud, Somerset, UK
http://www.alphacentauri-rats.co.uk
http://www.ratz.co.uk

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:24 am

Maybe some rats are genetically predisposed to bumblefoot, and wire makes it symptomatic? That would lead to a lot of people thinking that the wire caused it.

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Arvay and the Squirmin' Vermin

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'

--Erma Bombeck

Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:44 am

Ok, here goes. I had Martin cages a few years ago and when my rats were out running across the top of them, 2 of them got their hind feet caught between the bars. Maybe it was only a fluke, but it did happen to 2 different rats at different times so I got rid of the cages. Bamboo was over 2 years and developed bumble foot, and he was never in a wire bottom cage, so I have to say it was either old age, over weight, poor circulation or just a genetic thing like Arvay and Estelle said. His cage was kept spotless by the way, not just because he always used the same corner (but I do keep my ratties cages clean), so the dirty cage thing is ruled out. Sometimes accidents happen just because rats climb a different way and their foot gets twisted somehow, or they slip and their foot gets caught where it normally wouldn't, I know what I mean, I'm just having a hard time explaining it Confused

. Anway just wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth. Yogie Dance

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Cal and my love muffins

Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:00 am

my boys would kill me if I took away their 5 foot tall, 4 story cage. They ADORE that thing. Plus, it allows Meep! a lot of nice climbing walls. I swear he's part spider. Mr. Green

As Christy said though, to each his own.
Good luck Sharon!

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~Sara and the ratties: Remi, Sulin, Chiad, Kaya, Min and Stitch~

Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:14 pm

I keep all my rats (unless they are sick or old and need a single level cage) on wire floors in wire cages.
I was initially concerned about the bumblefoot issues, etc but stuff Estelle posted ages back when I first joined here and asked about it made me go for it.
I have had one rat with bumblefoot. He was on wire for his whole life until he started to slow right down, so I moved him to a single level cage. He was overweight and had some other health issues. Slowly he developed bumblefoot. I changed his bedding in his cage to vetbed and the bumblefoot started to clear up. I think it really kept the pressure off his heels too much.

My only worry with wire floors is rats can get their back feet caught in them when they lose the use of their back legs through degeneration or old age. It's twice happened to me that I heard screaming coming from the rats and found one of them haning by their foot. Both rats this happened to were very old and had back foot/leg weakness. Hence the use of single level cages. Now whenever I see one of my rat's back legs start to go, move them into the single level cages I have. I've not had a problem since.

I personally would never use an aquarium because they're a nightmare to clean properly (unless you get a tiny one that isn't big enough for rats), they cause the build up of toxic ammonium fumes from rat waste (because there is little air circulation - so it may smell clean to you, but to the rats inside it's well overdue a cleanout) and they just don't have the same amount of space for climbing, which is especially important for young ratlings.

But like everyone else has said, everyone does what's best for them.

Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:11 am

I believe there are studies suggesting diabetes (that is, poor circulation) as a contributor to some cases of bumblefoot.

(On another note, I think we scared off Sharon.)

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Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:45 am

I think I'm going to find another rat club to join .
Sharon[/quote]

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:35 am

	ratbreederR wrote:
	I think I'm going to find another rat club to join . Sharon

Good luck?

I'm sure that most other rat clubs you found to join would basically mirror our opinions on the subject.

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Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:33 am

Dang. Talk about unable to cope with differing opinions. Well, at least she left with relative grace, rather than spewing bile at us (as some others have done). *shrug*

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Arvay and the Squirmin' Vermin

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'

--Erma Bombeck

Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:16 am

I knew this was gonna happen after reading the first post. Does that mean I am Psycho(Rugrat quote)? Hehehehehe

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Tabby
My Friends that have crossed to the bridge
~Lilo,Stitchy,Pleakly,JumJum,Ohana~
And the family hamster ~Scrump~

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:00 pm

The majority of the rats I have had have never been troubled with bumblefoot, but of the ones that have, several were diagnosed with heart problems.

My Willow had heart problems and she was one of only 2 of my rats to develop bumblefoot. I didn't know about the connection before.
[/quote]

i aggree, heart problems would cause poor currculation which could cause the bumblefoot

Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:13 am

I know I'm getting in really late on this thread, but I must reiterate that it's NOT the wire flooring/perches/cage that causes bumblefoot! It's circulatory problems that, in my most humble opinion, are the result of, and caused by, type 2 diabetes.

There IS a correlation! A very strong correlation. Type 2 diabetic rats are born with an enlarged heart that has a stenosed left ventricle (along with other things). This stenosed left ventricle eventually leads to (either or both) pneumonia and/or Left Sided CHF. There is also a profound loss of cardial function, and circulatory problems.

I'm betting dollars to donuts that ratties who have been diagnosed with heart problems, and who are, or were, also obese (and or developed bumblefoot), if they got a Fasting Plasma Glucose test done, I'm betting the majority of the FPG tests would show positive for (type 2) diabetes.

Just this week I learned of three more diabetic ratties. The diabetes was confirmed by a vet. One died of a heart attack, one had severe siezures and had to be put to sleep, and the other had to be pts because of chronic pneumonia that would not respond to treatment. They were only ten months old, but it's three more confirmed cases....

Again, it's not the wire flooring/cage/perches that are the cause. It's the genetics.

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Deb and the
Blue Steel Rats ~~((((8:>

A proud rattie owner since 1964

Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:22 am

I'm getting in late on this one too. But felt the need to put in my two cent's worth.

All my ratties live in wire cages, and each shelf is lined with plastic carpet runner covered in fleece. The only wire that my ratties walk on is the ramps. I keep my cages spotless. But I still had one girl, Nala that developed bumblefoot. This didn't happen until she was over a year and a half old. Although, I wouldn't consider her over weight, she wasn't skinny. Her heart checked out and she was otherwise very healthy (we lost her to complications from anestesia, after a routing tumor removal).

Guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know if bumblefoot can really be attributed to any one cause. I believe that some ratties just get it.

As for ratties getting their feet caught in the spacing. I think that can just happen too. I've only had one problem and that was with Ellie. She got to the bottom of a ramp once and got her ankle caught. Luckily, she got it out, but did bruise it a bit and limped for a while. I think that things like this can just happen. Should we be careful of this? You bet. But I think with these little darlings, they can always be at risk for something happening. I try to think of everything possible to keep my rattie's safe, but inevidibly, something happens occasionally.

I hope we didn't scare Sharon off....this is the nicest board there is. The other boards have people just waiting to argue.

Peace out.

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Debbie and the gang of spoiled furries

Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:51 pm

I think it's the genetics, too. I talked to mom about the bumble foot last night. Is it possible the ratties were prowned to the bumble foot anyways, they just happened to develope it when they were in the wire cage?
Peace out, everyone.

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